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Commercial vs ham radios on commercial vs ham frequencies

17K views 11 replies 9 participants last post by  Greg 
#1 · (Edited)
Re: The "Official" VHF Frequency for Fourwheelers

I thought Greg's post regarding this topic was so good that I have created a new thread/sticky for it.
- lars


Speaking of mis-information...

Dept of Communications is the old name, before it became Industry Canada. Same mandate, different business cards. So if you hear somebody talking about DOC or Communications Canada, it's probably somebody who has been in the hobby or industry since before IC was IC.

A commercial radio is programmed to operate on specific frequencies. So you can't actually "attempt" to transmit on an amateur frequency if it doesn't already exist in the radio. Type-accepted commercial radios are not frequency-agile. Commercial radios modified to be programmed by the operator in the field are no longer type-accepted and cannot legally be used on commercial frequencies.

A commercial VHF radios' frequency range will typically cover all or a portion of the amateur VHF band. The amateur VHF band is 144-148 MHz; you will find commercial radios with ranges of 136-174 MHz or 146-174 MHz, or 136-152 MHz, or similar. So amateur frequencies CAN exist in a commercial radio, but they would have to be deliberately programmed that way.

Commercial radios may be used by ADVANCED-qualification amateur radio operators within the amateur bands. All of my VHF and UHF gear are commercial radios programmed with amateur frequencies, because they are better spec'd than amateur radios and have minimal controls for ease of use. This is perfectly legal; the commercial radios exceed the specs required by the amateur service.

However, BASIC-qualification amateurs may only use commerically-manufactured equipment intended for use in the amateur radio service (see RIC-3). Essentially, your BASIC license does not permit you to transmit with modified, home-brew, or kit equipment, including kits built by an Advanced amateur such as Heathkit. Apparently they consider commerical radios programmed for amateur frequencies "modified for amateur service", even if the commercial radio is spec'd from the factory to cover the amateur band.

If you are an ADVANCED amateur radio operator and have a license for your commercial radio, you can have your commercial frequencies and your amateur frequencies in the same commercial VHF radio.

However, amateur radios cannot be used to transmit on commercial frequencies, in part because they do not necessarily meet the specs required for use in the commercial radio service, and in part because IC does not want commercial users to be able to program frequencies on the fly, generally assuming that the commercial users are not radio hobbyists and therefore would not have the knowlege to correctly program a radio.

Funny thing, many hams like commercial gear, and many commercial users like ham gear.

It's not illegal to modify an amateur radio for operation outside of the amateur band, or posess such a radio, but it's illegal to use it to transmit outside of the amateur band (except in an emergency or during MARS/CAP activities). However, only ADVANCED amateurs may transmit with a modified radio, and then only within the amateur band(s). BASIC amateurs may not transmit with modified radios. Some amateur radios such as the older Icoms came from the factory able to transmit outside of the amateur VHF band.


Licenses:

The Amateur Radio service requires the operator to hold an amateur radio operator's certificate. Each amateur radio station requires a license (callsign); this is different than your certificate. Your license covers all of your base, mobile, and portable radios at that location, and allows you to operate within any of the amateur bands (frequency ranges) for your license class. If you have a second base location, that location requires a separate license.

The Commercial Radio service requires the operator to hold a radio-telephone operator's restricted certificate. Each radio requires a separate license (callsign); this is different than your certificate. So if you own a mobile and a portable, you would require two licenses. You do not pay per frequency in the radio, but each frequency in the radio must be listed on that radio's license.

Greg
 
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#2 ·
This is a great post, thanks. I have always been interested in the commercial side of things (as i only know the amateur bit). I was thinking of getting a commercial radio license for operation on lad's and local logging roads though i have no idea if they will allow individuals to acquire these? Anyone know? Thanks Gord
 
#10 ·
Getting a licence for the LAD channels should not be to hard, but you might want to think about how you will explain who you will be talking to if you only have one radio. Not sure about how easy it will be to get a licence for the local logging channels unless you can get the prior approval of the licence holder for each channel.

Hopefully once the new resource channels are in use we will all be able to get a licence for them without undue hassle. (Although the proposals I have seen call for the radios to have selectable power levels which will rule out many comerical radios.)

I'd be inclined to wait for the new resource channel proposal to sort itself out before trying to get a radio and liscene for the current logging channels.

Regards
Net Sync
 
#3 ·
I asked our local 'radio guy' about this when we first moved to Revy. Basically the local logging trucks have all the local freq's programmed into them. This varies from 6 to about a dozen depending upon the areas they'll be working in and it's 'assumed' that they have permission to use them whilst on the roads in that area. Might not be 100% correct from the paperwork point of view but safety is the utmost priority. It's not really practical to get written permisson for every truck each time a new one comes to town or changes work area and quite alot of the freq's are 'co-op' owned anyway.

His words of wisdom were..... get a radio, get it programed, USE IT & be safe on the FSR's.
 
#4 ·
Once again, the law does not match the reality but both businesses and individuals (and perhaps Industry Canada) are willing to turn a blind eye in the intetrest of every FSR user.

Great posts. Thanks.
 
#7 ·
Just a bit more info to add to the mix:


Industry Canada has undertaken a project to streamline radio frequency licensing on resource roads, bringing in a program that will see a consistent block of radio channels available for mainline road safety throughout the province. In conjunction with the radio channel changes, the Ministry of Forests and Forestry TruckSafe are working to implement standardized signage and radio calling procedures.

Two pilots have been completed, one on Vancouver Island and the Sunshine Coast, and the other near Tumbler Ridge. Evaluation of the pilots is almost complete and final recommendations are being made to the Ministry of Forests executive.

Public meetings have been held over the past year in Nanaimo, Port Alberni, Duncan, Campbell River, Powell River, Sechelt, Dawson Creek, and Chetwynd to inform resource road users about the coming changes.


Click here to view the presentation given at those meetings.


:canadian
 
#8 ·
This is both good and bad. I like the idea of having the set frequencies. I don't like the tone coded squelch. I think that is a bad idea.
This means guys that do their own programming will HAVE to know about narrow band, tones and have a radio that will support that. I can't say for sure but I suspect that eliminates quite a few ham radio's from being able to operate on the new road frequencies. It definitely will eliminate a lot of older commercial VHF radio's. One MUST be aware when buying older gear whether it will support narrow band frequencies or not.
 
#12 ·
I've updated the original post with information from RIC-3 regarding commerical and modified equipment, with respect to BASIC-qualification licensees.

It probably won't affect most of you, but I wanted the post to have the correct information.

Greg
 
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