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Class 5 with heavy trailer Code 20 Endorsement

52K views 92 replies 17 participants last post by  jeeponrock 
#1 ·
I ran into a bit of a landmine today while trying to figure out if my flatdeck trailer insurance was proper.

I have the std class 5 drivers license and today I found a pretty vague reference to a code 20 endorsement if you are hauling a trailer over 4600kg on another bulletin board. As it turns out this is pretty clearly described on the CVSE Trailer Towing FAQ but as a "restriction 20", not a "code 20" as described by ICBC. At any rate this didn't register with me when I read the FAQ so I only have myself to blame on this, part of the problem is that I'm old and think in pounds, not kilos so the 4600KG went in one ear and out the other.

At no time during my registration and insurance purchasing process last month did I get any advisement from the Autoplan agent that my 5443KG (12000lbs) trailer would require an extra endorsement on my drivers license. I accept the fact that Autoplan agents can't know everything but during the process I really think ICBC could put a notification on the computer that the customer (me) should be advised of their obligations.

Moving on to the Code 20 I could not find out any information online on what it is or how you get it so I went to Motor Vehicle branch. As it turns out this must be a pretty rare thing to get as it required quite a bit of conferencing on the part of a few people at the counter.

So basically you have to take a written test that covers the Class 3 license without any air brake qualifications, you have to get a medical and take an eye test.

I will do all of the above if necessary but my feeling is my usage is less than what is covered by this endorsement. One potential problem is that if I go on a trip it's likely that I will be the only one with the proper drivers license endorsement so only I will be able to drive. I think I just bought a trailer that was much larger than necessary for my needs and now I understand why so many trailers in this class are rated at 9990 lbs .

Basically my usage will always fall under the 4600KG threshold so is it possible for me to officially reclassify my trailer from 5443kg (12000lbs) to 4600kg (10141lbs)? I went to an Autoplan agent tonight and they didn't have an answer so I will call ICBC tomorrow as well.
 
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#2 ·
You don't need the class 3 or the restriction 20 unless your trailer and it's load actually weigh more than 4,500 kg. It matters not what GVW you license it for, at least with regard to your driver's license.

The class 7 or 5 driver's license permits the operation of (ii) a 2 axle motor vehicle or 2 axle tow car with towed vehicles if the towed vehicles in that combination do not exceed 4 600 kg,

What you may need to worry about is the licensed GVW of your pickup that tows the trailer. Typically, you are licensed for 1.5 times your truck's net weight unless you specify differently. This is very likely not enough for the heavy trailer you are talking about.

I understood that you had to write the class 3 test and successfully demonstrate a pre-trip inspection, but I didn't know that you had to do the medical and vision tests.
 
#3 ·
Thanks Tim, your information is a big relief for me. This all started with getting information on how to properly set the pickup GVW.

The Motor Vehicle branch gave me a copy of the Code 20 Qualifications :

1) Qualfy on a vision screening test and medical to class 3 standards (or class 4 standards if applicant already has a class 4 license).
2)Qualify on a Class 3 knowledge test
3)Qualify on a heavy trailer road test using the Commercial Vehicle Road test form MV2931 (Collect the class 3 road test fee).

Pre-screening is not required to add code 20 to a class 4 or 5 driver's license.
 
#7 ·
I should clarify, when I read the rule about the 4600+kg endorsement requirement I understood it to mean that if you have a trailer capable of carrying beyond the 4600 you have to get the endorsement. When I went to Motor Vehicles they didn't tell me otherwise on this. Skidmark clarified the rule that basically you only have to have the endorsement if you carry over that which I won't be. I won't be going over with what I have now.

And yes the Toy definitely needs to go on a diet, it's a fatty.:mullet
 
#9 ·
You are right it isn't a class 3, but the written test is the Class 3 test minus any air brake questions. You also need a medical and eye test.
 
#10 ·
Somewhere , somtime someone should revamp ALL light duty trailer laws.
Ive towed for years and its almost impossible to be legal towing a light tandem axle trailer.

Its a bunch of crap , the last time I was stopped in the canyon by a JERK from the Ashcroft RCMP he was more worried about what it said on my reggie than whether the trailer was safe or not.
He never ewven looked at the trailer he just started going off about my truck GVW.

Its all very confusing and overlapping.
Scrap it and start again, they have big truck laws tied into light trailer laws , RCMP say diffrent than DOT guys about things and ICBC clerks dont have a clue what you really need.

Its a cash grab , nothing to do with saftey.
 
#11 ·
Somewhere , somtime someone should revamp ALL light duty trailer laws.
Ive towed for years and its almost impossible to be legal towing a light tandem axle trailer.
I agree, there's too much emphasis on bureaucracy and regulations than there is on actual safety... there are some very unsafe vehicles on the road that go unnoticed.
 
#12 ·
x3 on the confusion out there. Difficult to decipher regs, big problems with Autoplan agents because the majority don't know the ins and outs of trailer reg. There seems to be a disconnect between ICBC and CVSE as well.

I did find an Autoplan agent that actually knew about this sort of thing. I called the RV place in Coquitlam and asked them what agency they used and they came back with Coquitlam Agencies on McAllistar in Port Coquitlam ( 604 - 941 - 0544 ). The fellow there knows the ins and outs of trailer reg and answered my questions and solved some issues I was having.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I tow a 14,000lb flat deck that is loaded to the max with an F350, the truck comes from the factory with a hitch that is rated for 15,000lbs, the trailer is registered as commercial and I have my class 1 licence, as I understand the rules, as long as I do not exceed the licenced/stickered GVW on the truck, axle rating on the truck, axle rating on the trailer, it is legal to tow.

If the truck and trailer both have a licenced GVW and axle ratings and none are being exceded why would you be ticketed? The tow vehicle has a GVW which applies to itself only and so does the trailer, unless we are talking about a GCWR (gross combined vehicle weight) being exceeded?

You may however have an insurance policy that does not even cover what the vehicle is able to carry, this will get you in trouble from ICBC if you get into an accident with the insured weight being exceded, but DOT/CVSE sould only ticket you for exceeding mechanical limits.
 
#15 ·
I tow a 14,000lb flat deck that is loaded to the max with an F350, the truck comes from the factory with a hitch that is rated for 15,000lbs, the trailer is registered as commercial and I have my class 1 licence, as I understand the rules, as long as I do not exceed the licenced/stickered GVW on the truck, axle rating on the truck, axle rating on the trailer, it is legal to tow.

If the truck and trailer both have a licenced GVW and axle ratings and none are being exceded why would you be ticketed? The tow vehicle has a GVW which applies to itself only and so does the trailer, unless we are talking about a GCVW (gross combined vehicle weight) being exceeded?

You may however have an insurance policy that does not even cover what the vehicle is able to carry, this will get you in trouble from ICBC if you get into an accident with the insured weight being exceded, but DOT/CVSE sould only ticket you for exceeding mechanical limits.
A commercial trailer (large plate) does not carry it's own licensed gvw. The total weight of the trailer plus whatever load is to be carried must be added to the tow vehicles licensed gvw.

Is it a cash grab?? You betcha. I call it "pay for what you weigh". The more a vehicle weighs the more damage it does to the road so therefor you pay more.

If found overweight due to licensing, you will be charged the same fine amounts as if you were over the manufacturers weight rating, and yes CVSE does that.
 
#18 ·
I guess it would have to be insured as a utility trailer with the correct GVW from what was posted, but since it is a flat deck and carries a huge number of different things depending on what I am doing, I'm sure they will want it insured as commercial even though I am not running a buisness.
 
#21 ·
Don't get me started on Autoplan agents.

ICBC does not use the manufacturers rating. Typically they use 1 1/2 times the vehicle weight. I have never seen a truck (which all trucks are commercial vehicles, hence the different plates from a car) licensed up to the manufacturers rating, unless the insured figured it out themselves.

I am also confused about you not having a large plate (same size as all cars and trucks) yet you have the non-expiry decal. That decal is only for commercial trailers (which it seems to say on your papers?) and should never be applied or issued to a small utility plate.

Personally I hate the "non-expiry" decals. The insurance does expire just like it always has except the decal doesn't have to be replaced. It makes enforcement hard and many owners think they are insured for life.
 
#23 ·
Car plates don't carry a licensed gvw so I guess you would have to go in and buy a permit to cover the weight of the load.

That's a good question that I don't really have an answer for.

Could an SUV tow a trailer over 1400kgs without going over the manufacturer's gvw??? Most cars and suv's I have weighed are over their gvw with a full tank of gas and 4 adults inside.
 
#25 ·
So, went to get my insurance changed over today, got told that I need to go to a scale and get a weight certificat, not sure why as my trailer has a vin plate and GVW stamped right on it from the manufacturer??? Either way, they told me that after I had the weigh certificate, I could change it to utility instead of commercial along with having the gvw at 14,000lbs, so I will see what happens after I get the certificate.

I have a feeling that this is just more wrong information, she also found it weird that I would want a licenced GVW on my trailer rather than just increasing the GVW on the multiple vehicles that tow this trailer.
 
#27 ·
Sounds to me like she was trying to register your trailer as a u-built. The weight certificate is required as part of that process.

Is this a flat deck or enclosed trailer?

From the reading I've done, you can only run a utility plate on a trailer with a GVW of 1400kg or under. The exception being open deck trailers that are being used for recreational purposes or horse trailers etc.

This sheet from CVSE covers which plate you need.
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/CVSE/references_publications/trailer_towing_info_sheet.pdf
 
#29 ·
What makes me double mad is when the cop was bitching at me about not have my trucks GVW right , he made it sound like I was just trying to get cheaper insurance.

I would gladly pay whatever the crooks want if they could assure me I was legal!

Ive tryed on 3 diffrent trailers and the harder you try to get it right ,the deeper the hole you dig gets.

Best luck I ever had was with a Ubilt flatdeck POS trailer that I put a small plate (think it cost $60 a year) , and I hauled everything every where and was never stopped.
It had to be illegal all the way.
 
#33 ·
"you don't need the class 3 or the restriction 20 unless your trailer and it's load actually weigh more than 4,500 kg. It matters not what GVW you license it for, at least with regard to your driver's license."

That is wrong. If the GVW of the trailer is over 10,000 lbs then you have to have a heavy trailer endorsement, regardless of whether you only put 5,000 lbs on it, or you load it to it's capacity.

The Restriction/Code 20 is easy to get. You take the class 3 learners which is the multiple choice deal on the computer. You can then walk over to the desk and schedule a road test. The road test consists of a complete pre-trip inspection of the vehicle, and trailer, and then a 30 minute drive. I was not made to back up, I just had to drive around on the highway, then up some back roads. It wasn't hard.

To find out your GCWR on your truck to make sure you have the proper insurance, take your truck, loaded with fuel and whatever gear you're going to be taking, and your trailer, loaded over the scale, one night when it's closed. Do one axle at a time on your truck, and all of the trailer axles, add them together and you have your GCWR. Make sure that none of those numbers go over your door tag ratings for your axle weights. If you go over the scale when it's open, and you're loaded and your insurance hasn't been changed, you risk a ticket. You can also call the permit office and request a single trip permit for weight, just guess high on your weight. It's $50 for the day.

There are two types of trailers. House trailers (RV's) and flat decks. With a house trailer you DO NOT ad the weight of the trailer to your truck. Just the tongue weight, even if it's a fifth wheel. If it's a flat deck, then you add the weight of the loaded trailer to the weight of your truck to find out your GVW. It's confusing, but i just went through all this horse **** for 3 months trying to figure it out. At the same time, I was trying to raise the rating of my truck from a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton.

Good luck, and if you have any questions PM me.
 
#34 ·
There are two types of trailers. House trailers (RV's) and flat decks. With a house trailer you DO NOT ad the weight of the trailer to your truck. Just the tongue weight, even if it's a fifth wheel. If it's a flat deck, then you add the weight of the loaded trailer to the weight of your truck to find out your GVW. It's confusing, but i just went through all this horse **** for 3 months trying to figure it out. At the same time, I was trying to raise the rating of my truck from a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton.
how can there be only 2 designated types of trailers??? how about enclosed trailers? car haulers? horse? cattle?utility? etc.

I know for a fact now that any trailer with the comercial designation even if used for personal use has to have it's weight covered by the towing vehicles GVW, Utility trailers carry the small plate and have their own licenced GVW, so the tow vehicles does not have to be increased.
 
#35 ·
you are correct that there are many subtypes of trailers. The two types of trailers, I forget the class designations (I think they are 1 and 4), cover cargo trailers (flat decks, car trailers etc) and house trailers (rv's, enclosed trailers, horse trailers) Cargo trailers generally have their weights changed frequently due to the amount and type of cargo loaded, whereas RV trailers, and horse/enclosed do not. This is information I was given by CVSE and ICBC while researching it. Also note, that if you tow ANY trailer for commercial use (even a quad trailer), you need to have a restriction/code 20 on your license, or a class 3 or 1 licence.
 
#37 ·
straight from the CVSE inspector I talked to at the Vernon scales:

trailer 10,000 LB or more (4545.5 kg, probably rounded up to 4,600[this is my guess, so don't take my word for it]) = Class 3 or Rest. 20
So, the MVAR is stating exactly what I said.

Commercial use:
5,000 KG = NSC #
5,500 KG = Report to scale
8,200 KG - Require semi annual inspections, trailer annual
14,600 = log book, written pre-trip

If you're still unsure, call the scale. If you want the number of the scale closest to you, let me know.
 
#39 ·
No teejay the MVAR does not state what you said. You said. "That is wrong. If the GVW of the trailer is over 10,000 lbs then you have to have a heavy trailer endorsement, regardless of whether you only put 5,000 lbs on it, or you load it to it's capacity."

You can easily see that the MVAR makes no reference to what the GVW of the trailer is. It states "exceeding 4600kgs" not having a rating exceeding 4600kgs.

Also all the weights you posted need to be exceeded before what you posted applies.
 
#38 ·
Teejay, Mermaid is a CVSE Inspector and Skidmark is a retired RCMP traffic, do you think it's possible you misunderstood what you were told?
 
#40 ·
k, so my understanding of the MVAR rule is that I could go out and get a 30 foot tridem trailer, and load a dirt bike on it, and tow it around without a heavy trailer endorsement as long as the trailer and the load doesn't weigh more than 4,600 KG, but the trailer is rated for 14,000 KG?

That is not at all what I was told by the guy I bought my trailer from, ICBC and CVSE.

Not that it applies to me anyway, as I tow my trailer commercially and I often load it to 8,000 KG or more.

The biggest headache I had figuring all this stuff out, is I would get a different answer from everybody I would talk to, including two different CVSE inspectors, ICBC agents, and different departments would contradict eachother etc. I just went and got my restriction 20 to be on the safe side, I always fill out a pre-trip and a log book, just to be on the safe side, and I get my truck and trailer inspected, and insure my truck with the trailers loaded weight taken into account...just to be on the safe side.

The best example of government (ICBC) bureaucracy at it's finest:
When I finally got the inspection done to raise the GVW of my truck from a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton, I was over the 8,600 KG limit, so I took it into a designated inspection facility. The inspection was completed and in order for them to fill out the passed form, I had to raise my GVW on my insurance. I went to the insurance office to do this, and was told they couldn't raise the GVW on my insurance without an inspection form. I was stuck. Luckily the autoplan agent was able to call the inspection facility and get the number off the inspection sticker they were going to give me, so she could use that to filll out my insurance papers and raise my GVW, so I could take those papers back to the inspection facility and get the forms finished there.

All of this was done after I got a fine at the scale, because I didn't include the weight of my loaded trailer to my licensed vehicle weight on my insurance...after I had asked several agents at various departments how to tow my trailer legally. Luckilly the scale attendant cut me a break, gave me the lowest fine and allowed me to get a single trip permit to complete my delivery. It was while at that scale that I was given the information I posted previously. It's all written down on a piece of paper the CVSE inspector gave me.
 
#43 ·
I'm just curious about your example. My vehicle registration includes a net weight and [licenced] GVW. I can change the licenced GVW to anything I want since it's the total weight including truck, [commercial] trailer and payload. it might be in the computer but there's no GVW on my registration, just the door sticker.

Second, my 1T has a GVW of 5,000kg. An 8,600kg GVW is way bigger than a 1T truck.
 
#44 ·
actually, my truck is insured at 10,500 KG. This takes into account the GVW of the truck (what I can haul in the bed...5th wheel tongue weight). I got this by running over the scale with the truck loaded with fuel, equipment in the toolbox and myself. I added the front axle weight to the rear axle weight and got my Tare. Next, I looked at the door tag to find out my maximum allowable TOWING weight. I added this to the Tare. Next I ran over the scale with my truck, and trailer loaded. I added the front axle, rear axle and trailer weight to find out the GVW, or GCWR of my truck and trailer. My truck can carry 10,500 pounds, and tow 12,000 pounds. Together that is 10,500 KG. The Tare weight of my truck is roughly 4,700 KG and my trailer is roughly 1,800. So, when I load my trailer I can't exceed 4,000 KG of cargo.

Keep in mind, there's GVWR, GCWR, FAWR, RAWR on your door sticker. My door sticker is wrong because it's for a 3/4 ton that has been converted to a 1 ton dually. I had it re-inspected and certified as a 1 ton, then I had to research the ratings of my truck on the internet, and, luckilly I found one on the road once and copied his information off his door tag.
 
#47 ·
Next, I looked at the door tag to find out my maximum allowable TOWING weight.

I had it re-inspected and certified as a 1 ton, then I had to research the ratings of my truck on the internet, and, luckilly I found one on the road once and copied his information off his door tag.
A couple of points, first legally there is no maximum allowable towing weight for any given truck. If you can get the tongue weight so that it doesn't put the rear axle overweight and your licensed GVW is high enough you could tow Vancouver with an S-10. The maximum allowable towing weight found on newer trucks is more for warranty purposes so you don't burn out your tranny trying to tow Vancouver.

Second, without an engineers certificate you cannot re-certify a truck to carry more weight than the original manufactures rating. You may have changed out axles and leaves and maybe even the brakes but it still does not make it a 1 ton. Licensed GVW bears no relationship to manufacturers rating.
 
#49 ·
Lets not forget the tire ratings either............
After you think you have everything figured out , look at your tire rating and then you can buy new tires.

Im getting more pissed by the moment reading this thread.
Theres so much mis-information and conflicting information out there.
Its almost as if its not really legal at all to tow a small trailer.

Something needs to be done to level the playing field when it comes to small trailers.
Theres no need for it to be this confusing or hard to complie with.

Im not anti goverment but this looks like a cash cow for them , which I could care less about if there was ever a finish to the process.

This topic copuld almost use its own website , get a few RCMP , CVSE and ICBC agents online answering questions.
It would be nice to have 3 answers to 1 question.

If I knew more about it Id try and put something together.
It would be nice to be able to go to a website and say "Ive got a flatdeck trailer that weighs ...blah blah ...." and be able to get a answer (Or 3).
 
#51 ·
#52 ·
I'm not sure why there would be an issue, friend has his flat deck insured with utility plates, 10,000lb GVW as it has two 5,000lb axles, it does not give a specific use on his papers just under vehicle type it says FLDCK. The difference in weight on my trailer should just be a higher rate should it not?

I have read the link you have posted many times, and it says it is possible to get a utility trailer with more than a 1400lb gvw.
 
#53 ·
I just don't have the answers. I do know that it's 100% possible to leave an ICBC agent without being in compliance with BC road law because I did it and drove around for a week or so until I got my act together.
 
#55 ·
"I am at the point where selling the camper and trailer is looking like the best thing to do and buying one of those enclosed car haulers with living space up front like you see at the race tracks, at least it can be done on a utility plate without the cost of cranking up my GVW so I need yearly inspections and an insane insurance rate."

I see what this is all about. Looks like you are just looking for an excuse to upgrade, if the wife is holding you back i say you are totally illegal and you need a fully enclosed carhauler with a partyspace up front. LOL
 
#56 ·
No, not by any means, Just want to find out what the rules are so I am legal with what I have.

Rasing the GVW on one tow vehicle would be fine, but there are 3 trucks alone in my family that pull the trailer from time to time along with friends that borrow it. Rasing the GVW on all those vehicles is a huge cost along with friends not being able to borrow it because they are not legal. If I was explained all this by the dealer who sold the trailer, or the original autoplan broker who registered it, I would not have bought it unless it was on a utility plate with a licenced GVW of it's own that is legal for what I use it for.
 
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