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Avoiding ICBC surcharge.

25K views 50 replies 23 participants last post by  Dook 
#1 ·
hello there.

I was involved in a minor rear ender over a year ago. Obviously, like every other douche bag, the guy i hit sued for neck and back injuries, so i couldnt just pay to replace his damn bumper, and my rates went up too.

When insuring my car today, the lady said only one car i insure has the claim attached to it, any other vehicles that i also insure will get my discount (25% i think right now). The question she couldnt answer, is, if i were to insure one vehicle at full cost, and another at my discount rate, and then cancel the full cost one a few days later, would icbc try to raise my monthly payments on the discounted vehicle? Or would i get a full year of discount insurance??:*******

I may be making this sound more confusing than it is, but i've met people who have bought beater cars just so they could temporarily insure them for this very purpose.
 
#3 ·
hello there.

I was involved in a minor rear ender over a year ago. Obviously, like every other douche bag, the guy i hit sued for neck and back injuries, so i couldnt just pay to replace his damn bumper, and my rates went up too.

Why not just accept the fact that you've got to learn to improve your driving, accept responsibility for your actions and pay the premium?

It's incredible that you come onto a public forum, blame someone else for your own incompetence (after injuring them in the process) and then look for advice as to how to cheat the system to avoid taking personal responsibility for your actions.
 
#4 ·
yep thats how you do it, just cancel the first one in about 2 to 3 weeks, take it from someone who has a 345% sure charge. three stupid accidents in three years and they can charge what ever they want,


It's incredible that you come onto a public forum, blame someone else for your own incompetence (after injuring them in the process) and then look for advice as to how to cheat the system to avoid taking personal responsibility for your actions.
__________________


I thought that was the point of insurance so I am not responsible for paying damages, then ICBC makes you pay it back with icreased sur charges, for one of the top earing insurance companies around they sure want there money back, ICBC is a joke, mabye if every one scammed them they would be broke, and I wouldnt have to pay them anymore, oh wait I dont any way
 
#5 ·
I thought that was the point of insurance so I am not responsible for paying damages, then ICBC makes you pay it back with icreased sur charges, for one of the top earing insurance companies around they sure want there money back, ICBC is a joke, mabye if every one scammed them they would be broke, and I wouldnt have to pay them anymore, oh wait I dont any way
Depending on the severity of your accident, you don't always end up paying it all back. Plus if someone else injures you or damages your vehicle, you don't end up paying at all. So in that respect, it does work.

Insurance isn't so people can drive like jackasses and have someone else pay for their mistakes. Why would any business offer that kind of a service??

...lars



 
#6 ·
ICBC is not a buisness, it a govt corporation who isnt supposed to profit billions a year and still increase everyones premiums, whether you crash or not, its just another tax grab why doesnt ICBC keep track of how much money I have paid them in the last 10 years, and dedeuct the accident from that... because that would be the right thing to do, and it wouldnt involve stealing my money, and everyone elses
 
#7 ·
ICBC provides insurance. Read up on insurance. How can it work if you expect it to pay for bad drivers' mistakes?? I sure as hell don't want to be paying for the mistakes of bad drivers.

And if you think ICBC is screwing us, compare our rates to Ontario's. Fact is, rates go up everywhere, even if you don't get in an accident. Have you ever seen home insurance get cheaper if you don't claim any losses?

Again, read up on how insurance works if you think that bad drivers should be fully covered without penalty.

...lars
 
#8 ·
Press Release


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

March 7, 2005

Consumers’ Association demands ICBC Reduce Auto Insurance Rates for BC Drivers in Response to ICBC’s Record Profits




The Consumers’ Association of Canada today called on ICBC to immediately reduce auto insurance rates in response to ICBC’s record profits announced Friday. “Over the last three years ICBC has generated two thirds of a billion dollars in profits. It is scandalous that rates are not going down, especially for good drivers”, said Mr. Bruce Cran, national President of the Association.

ICBC’s mandate is to serve BC consumers by delivering the lowest possible rates to BC drivers. “That’s its mandate, serve the consumer, but clearly it’s decided to no longer do this”, said Mr. Cran.

The irony of the auto BC insurance situation is that in Ontario private auto insurers who have just reported record profits are falling over themselves to claim they are reducing rates”, said Mr. Cran. “Meanwhile In BC, the non-profit ICBC is reporting record profits and won’t give up any of these profits to its customers. The question is why?”

“The reason is that ICBC has again become a political pawn of the Provincial Government”,

The Government has ordered ICBC to generate massive profits so that it can build up its financial reserves in order to compete with private insurers. Are consumers supposed to accept that in the topsy-turvy world of ICBC the corporation must generate super profits off the backs of BC drivers in order to build up reserves to more effectively compete with private insurers?

“I don’t know of a more bizarre idea – keep rates artificially high in order to convince BC drivers that Private Insurance Companies can compete”, said Mr. Cran.

ICBC is picking the pockets of BC drivers for at least $500 million in order to finance this crazy scheme of the BC government”, said Mr. Cran. “In fact, it is even possible that ICBC will soon seek rate increases to pay for this bizarre idea”.

“ICBC has a mandated obligation to consumers to reduce rates now”, said Mr. Cran.



just a quick search.
 
#12 ·
So you STILL believe that you're not responsible for paying damages? Like I said, a) You don't always pay it all back. If you total a new car, your additional fees aren't going to equal the cost of a new car. b) Bad drivers should always pay more for their insurance. If you expect our insurance system to operate like our healthcare system (same rates for everyone, regardless of the activities in which they engage), it would be in very dire straits.

I will agree that ICBC is making a crapload of money but I don't expect them to abandon the model of how insurance works.

...lars
 
#9 ·
I just did the same thing.... kinda... I was in a accident a few years ago, my fault. last year i made my dd ( the one that i was in the accident with) my new bush truck, and bought and insured a 4 runner for dd. so for the past year i had 2 vehicles insured. the 4 runner had the discount, the bush truck had the surcharge. Now that im moving out and going to school i cancelled the insurance on my bush truck. So far the insurance hasnt gone up on my 4 runner.

One problem with doing this is, I don't think the surchage goes down when the vehicle that it is applied to is not insured. so Basicaly, you'll continue to have your discount grow 5%every year on the vehicle insured, but as soon as you insure another vehicle, even if it's 5 years down the road, you'll still have the same surcharge that you do today.

One commin way i have seen around this is to, insure a 51ccbike, or whatever the smallest one you can use on the road( I'm not sure, but even a utility trailer might work). I belive the insurance is only $200 a year for a small bike. Now if you had no use for a small bike that would pretty much just be a waste of money.

that being said your gonna pay no matter what way you look at it, I've accepted that, and in a few years i'll have a roadstar discount.

If your just replacing a vehicle, you can transfer your discounted insurance onto it, and the new vehicle will have the discount applied to it as long as you keep the same plates.
 
#10 ·
yep, you could buy a beater and get the least amount of coverage (but with full surcharge) for that one...BUT make sure you've got your 2nd and subsequent discounted vehicles insured first. if youve got your DD already insured with full coverage & full surcharge, but everything else has the discount, cancel the DD insurance, insure the beater shortly after (full surcharge goes to the next insured vehicle if there isnt any surcharge currently being applied).

i was planning on doing what 84yota did when i was at a rediculous surcharge amount (300+%), but somehow i fell into a loophole in which i went from surcharge to full 43% discount. THANKS icbc :laugh: been roadstar+ for the last 6+ years...
 
#11 ·
Insurance company's are the same as banks; they lend you money and you pay it back with interest.

When I backed into a car years back, the gal at ICBC told me that my $820 claim would cost me around $1800 over the next three years. When I asked her why so much, and that I might as well just go pay for it w/o interest, she argued the fact that ICBC wasn't "loaning" me the money. Sure seems that way to me. I just paid out of my pocket and moved on.

Just face the music and get on with your life. No need to scam the system so that everybody else has to pay for your mistake.



 
#18 ·
That USED to be the way to do it but icbc made scooter like trailers now so they have flat rates.

I got into an accident when i was 16 and had a 60% surcharge because of it. I did the scooter thing for years (couldnt afford the insurance other wise) but about 4 yrs ago icbc finally caught onto the loophole and slowly went back to look for the people that were doing it. Now i am still paying for that accident (11 years ago) mind you im at 30% discount on our first car and 40 on the other but I couldnt believe that they went back and punished the people that were working within their guidelines.
 
#15 ·
DMMcG:
I have been rear ended twice, I havent claimed either of them because it was minor damage, and both vehicles i was hit in suffered VERY minor scratches. i used to believe in good karma, and that maybe i'd get a break if someday i was the one to do it.

The guy i hit even said he was ok, and that he worked at GM and could get me a discount on a new bumper. I thought the karma thing was true until a few days later he said his back may be a little bit tweaked. Yes my body was a BIT sore the next day in the other times i was rear ended, but im not going to make someone suffer for the next 3 or 4 years because of that. I was very apologetic at the time to him, and gave him no reason to want to "screw me".

So DMMcG, ya i can accept the fact i made a mistake, and was also willing to pay full price on a bumper etc, but im not going to pay for someones sore back when theyre rear ended by a small car in their bigass van at less than 10km/hr... You dont drive a big astrovan with a bent up bumper by any chance, do you?

Ive also looked into the motorcycle/scooter thing, and those dont have discounts anymore due to people doing that very thing.

I figure ill try my original plan. At the very most they'll mail me saying I owe them surcharge money, which i would have had to pay anyway.
 
#17 ·
....but im not going to pay for someones sore back when theyre rear ended by a small car in their bigass van at less than 10km/hr...
You are willing to pay for the vehicle repairs, but not the personal repairs?
Why shouldn't you pay? It was your accident, it was your fault, shouldn't it be your money? If you have any issues with the claim, that is between ICBC and yourself. If you feel the other party is frauding, complain. ICBC loves frauds!



 
#20 ·
ICBC is a joke and all these people that claim over small accidents just want money thats all its about cause they know they can do it which is unfare. ICBC is suppose to be non profit so WHY are they turning these big profits every year oh what its gov cont screwing you in the ass.

Welcome to BC
 
#21 ·
ICBC is a joke and all these people that claim over small accidents just want money thats all its about cause they know they can do it which is unfare.

Can you explain to me how it is done? You imply that it is easy to get a payout from ICBC

go talk to anyone who's been injured and you'll really learn how unfair it is, far more unfair to the victim than it is to the cause of the accident.

So are you saying that if you are injured in an accident, you will not ask for any monetary compensation for your pain and suffering?
 
#22 ·
You guys can rip and tear on ICBC all you want but at the end of the day if it wasn't for ICBC some of those who have replied to this thread wouldn't be driving anything right now.

How on earth can anyone get to a 300+% surcharge, I don't understand this. But I will say if ICBC didn't exist and you had private insurance, well you wouldn't because private insurance would have dropped you long ago.

I guess the only difference is that the thread title would be along the lines of @#@#$%$ insurance dropped me.
 
#23 ·
What im saying is that half these people do not get injured to the point of suffering or get injured at all. But they claim any ways cause they know they can get some kind of money out of it. As for me iv been in about 4 car accidents and only one did i claim cause i was acctualy hurt i didnt claim because i know i can get money.But in most cases people claim cause in one way or another all people think about is money when there is an oppurtunity to get it.Iv seen people claim over the smallest thing and its rediculas
 
#27 ·
I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it certainly isn't the reality of what happens.

ICBC has had in place for more than a decade now a program that denies injury claims in a low velocity impact. This initiative, when first put in place, would also deny injured people coverage for physio and medical treatment - it's a blanket policy and even if ICBC believes that a person has an injury, they would deny the claim on policy grounds. The purpose is to cause a chilling effect across the province, and reduce 'small claims'. It has made them a great deal of money, as the majority of people who have minor soft-tissue injuries cannot afford to take the matter to court. Some of these cases, with more significant injuries, have gone to court and substantial awards have been given.....people with osteoarthritis, or other pre-existing vulnerabilities who ended up with serious injuries from what might otherwise have been a few months of annoyance.

"All" people don't make a claim. Not even "most" people make a claim. ICBC has done a very good job with 'educating' the BC public to believe that your insurance rates are tied to personal injury claims. Many people here operate under the same misconceptions that you do because of their Palmer Jarvis inspired advertisements. Palmer Jarvis knows what they're about when it comes to advertising. The are one of the most respected advertising consultants in the business (I give credit where it's due - they are impressive).

You are entitled to your opinion. You can choose to believe what you want to believe. I'd just ask that you step back and de-construct those beliefs a little before you jump on the PJ-inspired band wagon and herald your beliefs to the world.....especially if part of the reason is that you're miffed 'cause you're looking to blame someone else for your own incompetence, and feeling frustrated because your premiums are going up to reflect that incompetence (and the "you're" in the paragraph above is not aimed at anyone but the original poster of this thread).
 
#30 · (Edited)
he summed up my thoughts perfectly. As for the rest of you that have no idea what hes talking about, get your head out of your ass and realize that money talks, and from what i've heard, from a couple reliable sources, is that if you go for anything under $5000 you most likely wont have a problem collecting. I think this thread is split with people who want free money, and people with some morals that realize how it sucks to have your rates raised. This was my first and only accident, and this guy screws me for years.

How's a doctor to prove whether your back is sore or not? Just because there is no visible damage, doesnt mean you arent in constant pain. Ever heard of worker's comp, or even sick time at work for that matter? TONS of people are on that, or call in sick that shouldnt be.

IF a guy gets out of his van, and you specifically say. "you ok?" and he says "ya im fine" and a few days later he claims injuries, it is kind of annoying to say the least. We've all had a fall on a mountain bike, or hurt ourselves in someway, and been sore the next day. It doesnt give us the right to claim injuries though.

I dont know if it's because im part of the younger generation or what, but i've seen atleast 3 friends go for injuries who walked away from the crash, and they all won their claims. I'd hate to say it, but almost EVERYONE does it, and its not fair that people have to pay for that.

Yes, DMMcG, the crash was MY FAULT, i've never said it wasnt. I claim full responsibility. This thread isnt about blaming him for hitting his brakes to fast, or weiving into my lane. I rear ended him, I was tired, it was early morning, and once again, it was my fault! Sucks to be me. I pay the $500 or whatever it costs, and get a new bumper installed on his van. Thats how it should be, until later that night when $$ signs appear in his eyes, and he realizes, hey, now that i think about it some more, my back is a little sore.

The amount of G force he received was equivalent to riding the old wooden roller coaster at playland. You'd think if he was hurt so bad, my passenger or I should be hurt as well, being in a car that weighs half of what his does.



Now, back to my original question, not whether or not every dink should go for pain and suffering, but more about how do you avoid paying ICBC's surcharge?
 
#34 ·
I dont know if it's because im part of the younger generation or what, but i've seen atleast 3 friends go for injuries who walked away from the crash, and they all won their claims. I'd hate to say it, but almost EVERYONE does it, and its not fair that people have to pay for that.

Yes, DMMcG, the crash was MY FAULT, i've never said it wasnt. I claim full responsibility. This thread isnt about blaming him for hitting his brakes to fast, or weiving into my lane. I rear ended him, I was tired, it was early morning, and once again, it was my fault! Sucks to be me. I pay the $500 or whatever it costs, and get a new bumper installed on his van. Thats how it should be, until later that night when $$ signs appear in his eyes, and he realizes, hey, now that i think about it some more, my back is a little sore.

The amount of G force he received was equivalent to riding the old wooden roller coaster at playland. You'd think if he was hurt so bad, my passenger or I should be hurt as well, being in a car that weighs half of what his does.

If you can step back and really look at what you've had to say, you'll understand why I responded to you in the manner that I did.

You've assumed the role of Dr. and engineer, without the qualifications of either, and then have proceeded to crucify a stranger who you apparently caused injury to. The value of the stranger's claim may be small - you have no idea. The fact that he may have been injured has affected you financially, so you lash out at him (and all people who 'walk away from a crash').

If you were just looking for a way to cheat the system (and I can't help but seeing a pot referencing a kettle in your rant), you could have posted the bare essentials of what happened. IE: ....you caused a collision. You want to know if anyone can assist you in avoiding paying the increased premiums associated with your being labelled a risky driver......any loopholes to allow you to avoid taking responsibility for your actions.

Viewed in simplest terms, I don't see how you're any better than the alleged 'frauds' out there who are claiming injury when they don't have one.

Maybe I'm just too 'old' in my view of the world, but there was a time when people did take personal responsibility for their actions. It seems to me that we're seeing the demise of civilized society, with people more and more willing to look for ways to avoid personal responsibility. People are no longer governed by an internal sense of 'right', but behave in accord with the likelihood of being caught and punished......looking for loopholes in every facet of their lives.

If you've got "friends" who have cheated the system by making false claims, there is an anonymous "TIPS" line for you to call and report them. Be certain that you actually know that they are indeed frauds before making the call - ICBC deals with legitimate claims aggressively, and they can be downright unreasonable if their TIPS line has been active even when the allegations are totally unfounded.

If the guy's injuries are really minor, you may want to consider paying out the value of those injuries from your pocket, rather than making an insurance claim - it could be cheaper for you than paying the difference in your insurance premiums. Who knows? He might need a couple of weeks of physio, and be right as rain.
 
#24 ·
Back to the original question. If you cancel the insurance on the vehicle that had the surcharge on it the next year that surcharge would probably be passed onto the other vehicle you own.

I think the only way you could actually avoid the surcharge would be to cancel all your insurance and stop driving, but as long as you have one insured vehicle the surcharge will be assesed eventually.
 
#25 ·
I think icbc now does something where you have to have something insured in order for your safe driving thing to work its way back up. so having nothing insured does you nothing but make you pay for it later when you decide to insure something again. 300% surcharge though? yikes. imagine trying to insure a newish vehicle? some vehicles are between 2-3 grand a year with full coverage even with a full 40% discount. imagine 300% on that?
 
#32 ·
My 2¢ worth (not that anyone cares):
I see a LOT of ICBC stuff go through various clients' accounts, and hear the stories. Add my own personal experience with them and REAL insurance companies back east and what I find is:
ICBC is a random chance organization. Maybe they find the right person at fault, maybe they don't. They'll dole out millions for fake injuries sometimes, and spend millions to avoid paying legit claims other times. Half the time their people don't even understand what you're talking about, no matter what the issue.
ICBC is more like a casino than an insurance company; you roll the dice, and see what happens. That's what's wrong with it; no consistancy. That and the fact we pay some mighty high salaries for fools, but that's SOP for any Gov't agency.
Does anyone else remember the ICBC 'rebates' coming just before elections? Followed by rate hikes due to 'increased costs' followed by trying to explain a 'budget surplus' followed by ... 'round and 'round.
If they really wanted to do something about high losses due to theft, they'd get some legislation passed to lock up car thieves rather than constantly blaming us for having our cars stolen.
Scrap it, along with any other Gov't department that A). is not held accountable and B). turns a profit at the public's expense.
End of rant. Shutting up now.
 
#36 ·
Quote:
(When I was 21, I was rear-ended (I was at a stop and other car was going around 40km/h). At that time, I felt fine, just the shock of the accident. Two days later, my neck was a tad sore, but it went away. ICBC fixed my car and gave me $2000 to go away. Being young and stupid, I tood the money and ran. A few years later, my neck started acting up, and to this date, it is still buggered. Not much I can do about it, but, if I ever get rear-ended again, I can almost guarantee that my neck will be even worse, and there will be a claim happening with ICBC. I don't say this out of spite, just out of real life experience. If I do get hit and my neck is fine, I won't settle for several years just to make sure.)









Come to think of it you probably sustain more whiplash wheelin than you would getting hit @30km, being that your bouncing around alot so maybe your neck hurts now due to all those years of wheelin not the accident you had many years ago.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Come to think of it you probably sustain more whiplash wheelin than you would getting hit @30km, being that your bouncing around alot so maybe your neck hurts now due to all those years of wheelin not the accident you
had many years ago.
And so did dislocating my shoulder when I was slammed into the beach body-surfing. Am I supposed to sit around and do nothing? Or continue on with my life the best that I can? I have chosen the latter.

Anyways, yes the wheeling, dirt biking, and just plain old living over the years have definately played a role in the current condition of my neck, but I guarantee you that if I never got rear-ended in the first place, it wouldn't be as bad as it is.

And to say that I probably sustained whiplash from wheeling is ridiculous. Bouncing around is nothing like whiplash. :rolleyes:

If you've never been hit hard enough to get whiplash, you really shouldn't be commenting on it.

You really need to spend more time figuring out how to get out of paying back your debt to ICBC rather than critiquing me. ;)



 
#37 ·
I had a 500% surcharge for bad driving. I agree 120% that bad drivers should pay. I was a bad driver, I payed and am a better driver today because of it. My monthly insurance was going to be $850 per month. to get around this I walked into my autoplan insurance broker every payday and gave them $185 and they gave me 15 days worth of insurance. No extra coverage mind you. Do the math I was saving about $500 per month. I did get to know them very,very well. :rolleyes:

It did however come with some drawbacks. I was getting pulled over about 1 time a week as I did not have plates only temp permit in the window. Never got a ticket they just wanted to verify the insurance.

I did this for three years and lost my surcharge at the 3 year mark from the time of the last claim.

My driving habits have changed dramatically.

Bad drivers should pay....this coming from somebody who had to pay. I didn't complain once I jusdt did what I had to do to get on with life.:canadian
 
#39 ·
even in a low speed impact if your not expecting it you can be injured. back and neck injuries are long term, ive got the neck pain and headaches to know how long whiplash last. the pains is one thing, the debilitating headaches are the kiler.
 
#40 ·
Bronco boy:
The fact that you made a $2000 financial gain from one day of discomfort is pretty sad. An accident shouldnt be seen as a way to make a quick buck. $2000 is a ridiculously large amount of money to be paid for what you went through. It's almost like you received a reward for being in the right place at the right time. If I did that for my other two accidents, I'd also have a few thousand extra dollars, at someone elses expense, and probably come out ontop still, even with this at-fault rear-ender. It wasnt their intent to hit me, they felt bad, apologized, and hopefully it doesnt happen again. I never once considered claiming an injury. I highly doubt it was the persons intent to hit you either, and yes, they're paying for their mistake, in the fact that they either have to hand out the money for your repairs, or suffer with increased rates.
One point i DO agree with you on, is that having a brand new vehicle involved in an accident lowers its value, and compensation should be given for that. ICBC doesnt understand that bondo and an accident claim on a vehicles history significantly lowers the value of a car. I think $2000 is fair in the fact that you're probably going to lose that amount because of it.

DMMcG:
I am not a doctor, nor an engineer. All i can go by, is previous examples I have heard of, or seen, and the specific incident i was involved in.
No matter which way i chose to start this thread, any mention of being in an at-fault accident, and trying to avoid increased premiums, is going to get the same type of comments as this one is. Rather than come on here and try to answer the question I have posted, you and a few others come on and tell us about your icbc knowledge, and that we should pay for our mistakes. A very general comment that some would see as the right one, but only on the surface.
You also said "It seems to me that we're seeing the demise of civilized society, with people more and more willing to look for ways to avoid personal responsibility. " I agree with you, but with that demise comes more gold diggers looking for a way to make a quick profit. Just because you're legally entitled to compensation, doesnt mean you should necessarily take it. I'm not lashing out at people who get injured in car accidents, I think they should settle for the amount of money that they feel right taking. I just dont agree with the current trend in people who feel they should be compensated for everything; such as having to pull over for 15 minutes to exchange information, or having to drive a rental car for a few days.


Anyway, I'm very tired of this thread, its taken way too much of my time, i'll let you guys know if i avoid the surcharge later this week.
 
#42 ·
I forgot something. pain dosn't have to come right away. my didn't come for a couple days. didn't know I had pain after my accident till I went to drive my car a couple days later and couldn't operate the clutch without severe shooting pain.
 
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