semi-pro cameras

[Graman]

I'm looking into getting a semi-pro / high-consumer camera, and in particular looking at the Nikon D50 and/or the Canon Rebel XT (little pricey) or Powershot S3IS (little more in my price range). Anyone using any of the above, or have any recommendations?

[lars]

Originally posted by Graman
I'm looking into getting a semi-pro / high-consumer camera, and in particular looking at the Nikon D50 and/or the Canon Rebel XT (little pricey) or Powershot S3IS (little more in my price range). Anyone using any of the above, or have any recommendations?
I didn't like the XT...grip was too tiny. D50 is a bit bigger and I like its control layout more. Canon DSLRs typically have better high ISO images but the D50 is actually comparable (it also bests Nikons more expensive bodies like the D70, D200, D2x, etc). I shot a wedding with it and my D70 a few weeks ago and it worked great. Canon has just announced a successor to the 350XT called, I think, the 400XT. More MP, has an anti-dust mechanism, and I think a faster AF module than the 350XT. Don't know about image quality although I would bet it'll be close to the 350XT. I have also used my brother's Canon 300D. It produces great images but its ergonomics are terrible and the 350XT I handled in the store wasn't much better...IMO.

Basically, to cover the same focal range as a prosumer digicam, the DSLR will cost you more money. BUT the DSLR will provide better image quality over a wide range of conditions (more dynamic range, less noise at high ISO's). The DSLR will also provide much faster AF, trigger response, and shot-to-shot times, AND have a larger buffer. Ultimately, the DSLR will also give you more flexibility in focal lengths but at a cost.


...lars

[99silverado]

1st get a camera that uses AA batteries,and pickup some good NIMH batteries and keep some alkalines in the case

I have the canon S1 IS (3.2MP,10X optical zoom) and I love it,lots of things to mess with or a auto mode to point and shoot

also get the mem cards from costco or on line,don't get them from bestbuy or future shop

[Road Dog]

Originally posted by 99silverado
also get the mem cards from costco or on line,don't get them from bestbuy or future shop Half true. I was at Costco today buying a camera (Canon A610) and Costco's SD cards were expensive ($50 for 1 GB regular speed card). FS has a sale this week ($60 for 2 GB 133x).

The sale price can be good sometimes and places like NCIX sells fast memory at about $30/GB. Last week FS was selling 512MB for $6 after rebates.

After researching for a while I decided that I wanted a small camera or a full size DSLR. The midsize -- like a Canon S3 -- gets you a 12x lens but is still a long way from a DSLR. If the camera is too big then you leave it behind.

[lars]

Originally posted by Road Dog
After researching for a while I decided that I wanted a small camera or a full size DSLR. The midsize -- like a Canon S3 -- gets you a 12x lens but is still a long way from a DSLR. If the camera is too big then you leave it behind.
Exactly. I also bought an A610 from Costco (couple of months ago) so I'd have something I could carry with me at all times. It has replaced my mid-sized prosumer digicam (Minolta A1) and is perfect for those times I don't want or need my DSLR.

Image quality of the 610 is really quite good. I printed an 8.5x11 inch image from it (ISO100) and it came out very well. I even use it at ISO400. I just have to apply a bit of colour noise reduction. I was tempted to get the Fuji F10 for its better high ISO performance but the overall feature set of the 610 made it the better choice for me.

...lars

[Road Dog]

The A610 and A620 are gone now and Costco is the only place that still has them in stock. The new Canons (A540, A700) are smaller, 2 battery, and a bigger, non-flippy screen. And no Custom mode for some reason.

[lars]

Originally posted by Road Dog
The A610 and A620 are gone now and Costco is the only place that still has them in stock. The new Canons (A540, A700) are smaller, 2 battery, and a bigger, non-flippy screen. And no Custom mode for some reason.
The Custom mode is one of the things that pushed me towards Canon, too. Fortunately, the recently announced successors (A630, A640) still retain Custom mode. They're also higher res so I don't know what the high ISO performance will be like.

...lars

[Road Dog]

That's the first I've heard of the A630/A640. Nice. My previous camera was an A60 (2 megapixels) so my A610's 5mp is a big step up. Since I never print even 2mp was plenty.

[grumpyguy]

You guys are talking way over my head but do the sd cards at Costco not have a higher data transfer rate than the ones at FS?

[Road Dog]

The cards I saw at Costco were just regular cards (1x). Faster cards always make a point of saying 40x or 60x or 133x and they usually cost more too. The speed is only an issue if you're shooting video or continuous (2+ pictures per second until you let go of the shutter).

[dodge456]

I have a Canon S3IS that I've only had for a few months. My GF has the S2IS that I had before. We really like both cameras although the S3 has a few more features such as sports mode, 6Mp over 5 in the S2, bigger LCD screen, and more ISO settings to name a few. I find both cameras to be a decent size for travelling with or carrying on hikes, not at all obtrusive. No they don't fit in your pocket but they're not as big as a Rebel or other DSLRs...and for the average person who just wants to take pics on holidays or camping or whatever they perform quite well. Also they both have excellent movie modes for still cams...30FPS at 640x480 resolution, and the S3 has a 60FPS option but at 320x240 resolution. Not video cam quality but pretty good for still cams.

[Graman]

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming! I'm looking more to the Nikon D50 for the simple fact of upgrading lenses in the future (whereas the S3 IS is fixed), and the price point in comparison. I've used my friend's Canon Powershot Pro 1 (a few years old), and it takes amazing pictures for a fixed lens DSLR, but more entry-level than the D50, although at the time, was priced about the same.

I always shop around online for memory cards, and almost always end up buying from NCIX. Very rarely do I ever find a lower price elsewhere, and when I do, I use their price match. :cool:

[d0ubledown]

new sony A100...cant beat it for an entry level camera. 10mp's, dust removal, built in IS. if you want good high ISO (meaning 800-1600) go canon. but unless youre shooting concerts or anywhere thats pretty much pitch black...id go with the sony. noise schmoise. it uses minolta lenses...and is based off the KM 5D...so nice n small n light.

it also comes with a decent kit lens albeit with a plastic lens mount. i played with one at my work...a bit too small for my liking though, but im used to carrying a maxxum 7 w/ grip. the sony's AF was surprisingly fast...if you dont mind inbody motors. seemed faster than even the D200 w/ 17-85 or canon 30D with 18-55. colour is still way better out of the box than canon or nikon IMO...but not as good as the maxxum's. my brother in law just gave me his old lumix fz5 for when i dont want to bring my slr. great cam...focuses fairly good and i was suprised that there was barely any shutterlag.

but yeah...canon or nikon does have a bigger (but not necessarily better) selection of lenses to upgrade to. i think minolta's lenses are better though...hey lars? :D

oh..and id go with faster cards too. not only for writing to the cam, but for downloading as well. on my lexar firewire card reader..theres quite a noticable difference in the transfer times between a slower and faster card.

[lars]

Originally posted by d0ubledown
but yeah...canon or nikon does have a bigger (but not necessarily better) selection of lenses to upgrade to. i think minolta's lenses are better though...hey lars?
Well, since you've asked for my opinion...

I honestly think that all the makers have some good lenses, you just need to know which ones to get. For instance, with Nikon, the 18-55 kit lens that comes with the D50 is good, but the 18-70 kit lens that comes with the D70s is much better because it has faster AF and is much more solidly built (metal lens mount instead of plastic). It is also quite sharp. For most people, Minolta certainly does have enough of a lens selection. I was never lacking for choice when I had Minolta. Unfortunately, with digital SLR cameras, it's a slightly different story. The variety of normal and super wide zooms for the Minolta/Sony DSLR is limited because Minolta didn't have the resources to produce a good selection of lenses in that range. Your basic choices are Tamron (which Minolta also sells under their name, albeit with some changes to the lens coatings) or Sigma. With Canon or Nikon, you have Tamron, Sigma, Tokina, and Canon or Nikon. Not a big deal, but it is nice to have a choice. BTW, do you happen to know if the kit lens that comes with the A100 is made by Sony, Tamron, or Zeiss?

As far as the dust removal feature, I've read that the A100 doesn't do nearly as good a job as Olympus' system. Also, after having my D70 for over a year, I haven't yet needed to clean the sensor. I've only blown dust off of it twice. So for me, dust isn't much of a problem.

And finally, when it comes to flash systems, the Nikon is far superior to Minolta. Sonny, I don't know if you've tried it, but Minolta's digital flash system is very inconsistent and nothing like the excellent system used by their film cameras, such as your 7. Although Minolta was first with an easy-to-use wireless flash system, Nikon has surpassed it and for me, that has been extremely useful.

But for MOST people, I think the Sony A100 would be a good camera. It's when you get into very specific needs that your choice of brand becomes more important. Or if you're the type of user who is going to be buying a lot of lenses, then I'd strongly consider Canon or Nikon simply because it's a sure bet that they'll be around in the future.


...lars

[crazyguy]

I just got the Canon Rebel XT(350XT) kit for my birthday. also got the 70-300 telephoto lens and a couple filters(sky-a1 and UV) with it. just gotta learn how to use it to its potential now.

dont know what you mean lars by small grip, I find it to be nice to hold onto, feels like an old 35mm.

what do you guys mean by dust removal?

anyway I wanted the rebel because friends of mine have an older version ive used and I really liked it and it seemed like a good entry into the dslr's. the autofocus is great when your tracking moving objects even while getting multiple shots. I just need to get used to paying attention to which auto focus point its useing at the time.

[lars]

Originally posted by crazyguy
dont know what you mean lars by small grip, I find it to be nice to hold onto, feels like an old 35mm.
By small grip, I mean that my fingers have to be bent pretty tight to hold onto the grip, plus the height of the grip is quite short, making it difficult for my little finger to help hold onto the grip. My Maxxum 7 was similar in that it was also short, but fortunately its grip was wider.


what do you guys mean by dust removal?

Little specks of dust will eventually land on the camera's sensor and they will show up in your photos as dark spots. Read here for more info:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/sensor-cleaning.shtml

In the attached photo, if you look near the bottom-left corner, along the side of the wall, you'll see a dark splotch. That's caused by a large piece of dust on the sensor. I removed it by using a squeeze bulb to blow it off, while the camera was held facing down with the shutter locked open and the lens removed.

(BTW, I lightened the photo so you could more easily see the spot. The actual print is a bit darker and looks much better.) This was shot with an external flash firing through a shoot-through umbrella. The flash was controlled wirelessly from my D70.

...lars

[lars]

I forgot to address the IS (image stabilization) issue. Yes, the Sony A100 (and Pentax K100, I believe) are great in that they have the image stabilization mechanism built into the body. ANY lens that you attach to the camera will be image stabilized. In contrast, Canon/Nikon require that you buy lenses with IS mechanisms built into them.

In real world terms, this means that if you like low light, wide- to normal-angle photography and you want image stabilization, you really need to go with Sony or Pentax. If you want image stabilization with budget-priced or third-party lenses, you need to go with Sony or Pentax. If you want image stabilization with high quality telephotos, then Sony, Pentax, Canon and Nikon are all good. But with the telephotos, in-lens IS systems generally perform a bit better. Price-wise, the high end Minolta telephoto lenses can sometimes cost even MORE than the equivalent high end Canon and Nikon lenses with in-lens IS.

Although I used the IS feature of my Minolta A1 a lot, it was mainly because the camera's maximum usable ISO was 100. Anything beyond that yielded a noisy image lacking in detail. Since moving to a DSLR where I could shoot at ISO800 with impunity, I haven't missed IS for the majority of my shots. Would I like to have in-body IS? For my kind of photography, it would be nice to have, but it's not enough of a draw to woo me away from the variety and stable future available from Canon/Nikon.


...lars

[crazyguy]

ah ok. ive read in my manual how to get the shutter to stay open and to use a squeeze bulb to blow it out. from reading it sounds like it takes a ton of battery power to hold it open though.

[ghaupt]

too add a little...the D50 is what I was after because I could use my old non/AF lenses. Then I discovered that there was no split focus ring in the view finder and because I wear glasses, I wouldn't have been able to fine focus. *flushing sound*

If you are looking at the D50...the outlet store on the Oregon coast at Lincoln City (I think) sells manufacturer rebuilts at 50% of new, plus no tax. Just a thought.


Gary Haupt

[lars]

Originally posted by ghaupt
too add a little...the D50 is what I was after because I could use my old non/AF lenses. Then I discovered that there was no split focus ring in the view finder and because I wear glasses, I wouldn't have been able to fine focus. *flushing sound*
PLUS you wouldn't be able to meter with those lenses, anyway. Basically, you need a D200 or better to get metering. The viewfinder is also bigger and you can put a split focus screen in it.

...lars

[TheOtherSide]

My parent's got the S3IS. Everytime they come over and I use their camera... all the settings are changed. I ask them what's up with their settings and they have no idea. I change them around a bit and start using the camera.... then I found out why. All the buttons on the back are very sensitive and are right where you rest your fingers... your fingers brush them lightly and settings start changing all over the place. Other than that, I don't like the built in flash.

I'm no pro... but I bought the Canon G6 right as it was being discontinued. Reason I bought it was the hot shoe mount for the flash. I have a Canon 420EX flash mounted on top and all my indoor photos turn out WAY better now. I know you can't buy this camera anymore (and the processor is much slower than the S3IS), but I love ours. For us with 2 kids and we're on the go lots, it works great to pop off the flash for portability. Another thing I liked was it uses the Compact Flash memory cards which our old digi-cam used, so they didn't go to waste when I crushed it 4-wheeling!

Just my 2-bits... but if you're not going to get an SLR, I'd get the hot shoe on top.... indoor photos turn out 50x better when you can bounce the flash off the ceiling.

Not like it's an awesome photo... but here is an example of midnight in my garage building my gas-can mount... poor lighting in the garage with a white ceiling... and bouncing the flash off it rather than the built in flash that would have washed out the whole thing.
http://members.shaw.ca/kelrox01/gas3.JPG

Anyhow... that's about all I know about cameras anyways!! :)

Good luck with your purchase!
Kelly

[Road Dog]

Originally posted by KelRox
Just my 2-bits... but if you're not going to get an SLR, I'd get the hot shoe on top.... indoor photos turn out 50x better when you can bounce the flash off the ceiling.
Hot shoes are so '90s. :) The new thing are slave flashes that are triggered off of the camera flash.

Important safety tip: older flashes were designed for cameras with mechanical switches so the strobe voltage -- up to 600V -- goes through the hot shoe. That's not healthy for the modern digital camera.

[TheOtherSide]

Originally posted by Road Dog
Hot shoes are so '90s. :) The new thing are slave flashes that are triggered off of the camera flash.

Important safety tip: older flashes were designed for cameras with mechanical switches so the strobe voltage -- up to 600V -- goes through the hot shoe. That's not healthy for the modern digital camera.

I guess I'm a little on the 90's side of things... :clown

:D

[ghaupt]

hey Lars....I thank you....didn't know about the 200. I'm afraid to go look at the $$'s...why don't you just kill me now....



Gary

[belmont mild]

whats your price range?
You want bulky or smaller compact with all the extra features?

[lars]

Originally posted by ghaupt
hey Lars....I thank you....didn't know about the 200. I'm afraid to go look at the $$'s...why don't you just kill me now....

I'd prefer that you suffer. At London Drugs, they're CAD$2000 body only. OTOH, the build quality is very good. People are calling it a digital F100. Magnesium shell and weather sealed. Very hefty but compact. Very good ergonomics, too. Only downside is that its ISO1600 performance isn't as good as the D50 and probably not as good as the D80, either. Well, there's also the matter of the D200 costing about CAD$1300 more than the D50.

I'm strongly tempted to get one but that price is tough to rationalize.

...lars

[lars]

Originally posted by KelRox
I'm no pro... but I bought the Canon G6 right as it was being discontinued.
Kelly
I agree that it's a great camera. I just didn't like the fly-by-wire zoom ring. Rumours are that Canon WILL release a G7. Lots of people are still looking for new-in-box G6's, too.

As for a hotshoe, yeah, they're still very useful. Even when using a flash off-camera, I may end up using a cord to trigger it instead of wireless because the wireless uses IR signals and they can be blocked by the umbrella.

They're also useful for placing bubble levels on when you're trying to keep the camera level when shooting with superwide lenses.

...lars

[lars]

Originally posted by TheOtherSide
I'm no pro... but I bought the Canon G6 right as it was being discontinued. Reason I bought it was the hot shoe mount for the flash. I have a Canon 420EX flash mounted on top and all my indoor photos turn out WAY better now. I know you can't buy this camera anymore (and the processor is much slower than the S3IS), but I love ours. For us with 2 kids and we're on the go lots, it works great to pop off the flash for portability. Another thing I liked was it uses the Compact Flash memory cards which our old digi-cam used, so they didn't go to waste when I crushed it 4-wheeling!


FYI, Canon just announced their new G7:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06091405_canon_g7.asp

...lars

[Graman]

Well, I ended up getting the D50, with the 18-55mm and 55-200mm lenses - $1019 including tax. Yeah, the lenses sure feel a lot more fragile (plastic-y) than the ones I had with my old FG - oh well, 5 year warranty :) . Got a 2GB Kingston Elite Pro SD card for $70. I got a Roots bag - seemed to have the most room under $100, but still is a bit cramped with the 2 lenses - what kind of bags has everyone else gone with? Whatever happened to the good old leather camera bags??

[lars]

Originally posted by Graman
what kind of bags has everyone else gone with? Whatever happened to the good old leather camera bags??
I think they went out with leisure suits.

It's pathetic, but I have over half a dozen camera bags. The ones I primarily use these days are:

LowePro Rover AWII
http://lowepro.com/images/products/S_F_RoverAW_3_n.jpg

LowePro Toploader Zoom AW
http://lowepro.com/images/products/TLZAW_Black_left_camera_1_n.jpg

With both bags, I use various pouches to carry lenses, GPS, filters, etc.

...lars