ok i recently got a vehicle inspection issued to me not on my blazer... but on my rx7!!! this is just pathetic! the officer tells me that my exhaust is too loud and gives me the order. i mean my car is not even close to as loud as these harleys and such for example yet the police hassle me? i wasn't speeding or anything, i have never gotten a warning nor been pulled over for my exhaust at all. is there a way i can bring this up with someone? i'm not that fluent with the legal system, but this is just beyond me. especially around christmas to get this, with all the gifts i have already bought and such, i don't have the money for an inspection right now, and can barely afford insurance and gas for this next month because i am just out of college and am searching for a job in the particular field, but this could mess with everything. thanks for any help you can give me. - steve

I've personally never heard of an inspection notice being voided and I don't think you are going to get much mileage out of not being able to afford it. If you read the local import car boards they get pulled over for VI's just as much if not more than 4x4's.

A VI cannot be disputed like a ticket, however, if it is not justified you may be able to have it withdrawn.

1) When it is issued, politely question the officer and ask for the items that triggered the order. If you know that they are lawful mods, point it out, and explain why you know it is legal. Ask them to reconsider issuing the VI.

2) If #1 doesn't work, go on with your day and do some research to make sure the mods mentioned are legal. Call the Detachment/Department the issuing officer works at and try to make an appointment to discuss a reconsideration with the officer.

3) If #2 doesn't work or the officer does not want to discuss it with you, contact the same Detachment/Department in a second phonecall and make an appointment to discuss the VI with the issuing officer's supervisor.

4) If #3 doesn't work at this point you are pretty much stuck with the VI unless you want to try one last appeal to the head of the Detachment/Department. Chances are that they will go with the supervisor's decision unless you can convince them otherwise.

5) If you go through with the VI and the facility finds no defects, you can consider a complaint to the RCMP Public Complaints Commission or the BC Police Complaints Commission depending if it was an RCMP officer or a city police officer that issued the VI.

6) You could consider trying to recover the cost of the VI, but at this point I suspect that you would need legal counsel for advice.

If you do have defects, even if they are different from the ones the issuing officer originally pointed out, perhaps it is best to take the VI as it is. All equipment violations are $86 tickets and if written under section 219(1) MVA they end up on your driving record. The VI doesn't (unless you have a National Safety Code Number - commercial vehicles).

When I issue a VI, I make sure that there are significant problems, and make notes on the back of my copy for later referral. Once written, I will not withdraw one as I am confident that it was written for a valid reason.

Now I am curious.

What is the acceptible level of flatuance that comes out of these mufflers?

<Rant> I am specifically refering to 4 cyl imports with exhaust tips 6" wide and emitting a annoying amount of noise. </Rant> Rotary engines not included ;)

There are many unecessarily loud vehicles out there for various reasons. The headers and mufflers on my Mustang are louder than stock but within reasonable limits, IMHO. I love Harleys and seldom mind their exhaust but double standard!!!! :confused:

I have yet to hear any import exhaust come close to my neighbors hog - a real beauty BTW :D

As I recall the US DOT has a limit of 86 decibels for street vehicles. I believe the Canadian is the same.

86 is really loud. The loudest production vehicle to even come close to that was a full on street legal race car by Ford a few years back, the Mustang Cobra R that was in the 70s. And it was freekin loud.

No stockish vehicle comes close to that limit.

Surrey has a bylaw for loud car radios and such. Not exactly sure what the limit is or how they measure it. But if they can fine you for it, they better have a device on hand to measure it - just like they do for speeding.

Wes

police dont NEED a device to measure speed, many other methods are used, visual, timing the vehicle between 2 reference points, paceing, etc... same as a cop doesnt need a device to measure decibles of exhaust. if it sounds unreasonably loud, a notice can be issued.

Vehicle noise
27 A motor vehicle shall be equipped with an exhaust muffler which complies with section 7.03 of the regulations.

The opinion of an inspector as to whether the engine and exhaust noise is greater than that made by other vehicles in good condition of comparable size, horsepower, piston displacement or compression ratio shall determine whether exhaust gases are expelled with excessive noise.

When tested in an inspection station, the vehicle engine, any auxiliary engine and exhaust level shall not exceed Table 3 standards.
Table 3

[am. B.C. Reg. 656/76, s. 2.]

Class of Vehicle
Maximum Allowable
Sound Pressure Level
DBA
Light duty
83
Gasoline-driven heavy duty
88
Motorcycles
91
Diesel-driven heavy duty
93

same as a cop doesnt need a device to measure decibles of exhaust. if it sounds unreasonably loud, a notice can be issue
to me this doesn't seem to fare at all. but the noise coming out of ones exhaust may seem excessive to one officer but not to an another, one would think that there would have a to a max DB level for a ticket to be issued, just like there is a max speed that one can travel. if a consumer doesn't know the max or that is it is a interperation of the officer, how can they tell if there new top dollor exhaust system will just them being haseled by the cops over it?
just a thought.

if anyone can recommend a place that is cheap n such can u please pm or email me... thanks with christmas and no job and all it's gonna be hard stuff to do... im not looking forward to it though because it could cost me some coin :(

While I appreciate the fact that some people put mods on their cars, I think going easy on exhausts is the right way, as many people cannot stand the noise of these modified vehicles. There are plenty of stock cars which are very fast and would not cost you much more than buying a Civic and then putting 10 large into it, to make it sound like a bulldozer.

i didnt say ticket, i said notice-- you know have it repaired in a month or else kind of deal. i've only seen 2 vehicles who were pulled over for speeding but issued an order as their exhuasts were shaking the windows beside where they were pulled over at idle.
to tell you the truth crazy, i had an exhaust in my jeep that i just installed, nice stainless pipe all the way from headers out, put what looked like beefy mufflers on but it sounded like a ricer on roids. it was VERY loud, and if i would have been pulled over i am sure i would have been at least warned for it. So, it was a top dollar exhaust but still way too loud. ended up taking it to a shop to install new mufflers, $250 later i said i could have done it myself for probably $70. i am sure most cops wont issue warnings, orders or anything unless you are WAY to loud and you know it. remember, if they issue you a ticket, they know they have to be able to back it up in court as to why they did. that takes away from anyone as you say might just be nit picking.

i wish i got a ticket so i could take it to court, i for sure would. all my exhaust is there. it's just because it's an rx-7 its loud. just passed aircare with no tuning either. sucks that notice's arnt disputable.

Skidmark,

Is there anything more specified in the regulations as to how the vehicle should be tested?

The largest issue with any sound pressure level measurement is the distance at which it is taken and the conditions at the time of testing. Is a distance given for the table 3 standards posted? The specified dB on the A weighted scale makes sense, does it also say if this is to be On Total, or On 1/3 Octave? Is there a particular meter that is standard issue for doing this type of inspection?

Just as a sidenote, if you want a loud exhaust which will pass the SPL requirements, try to aim for a lower frequency. The higher frequencies are more audible, which is why you hear a little import car as more of a disturbance than a rumbling big block, even though the import has a much lower SPL (on C scale).

No, there is nothing other than the listed sound pressure levels. No RPM, no distance, just a maximum reading.

cops sux they just give all the young guys a hard time.If you have a car thats fast loud of looks out of the norm you get ****ed

Originally posted by 4wheeler
cops sux they just give all the young guys a hard time.If you have a car thats fast loud of looks out of the norm you get ****ed


Words of wisdom from one of societies finest. ;)

WTF????:confused:


Originally posted by 4wheeler
cops sux they just give all the young guys a hard time.If you have a car thats fast loud of looks out of the norm you get ****ed

It's always nice to see a well thought out post....

haha, yup. thats exactly why i wanna be a cop, to give my peers a hard time... :clown

ME TOO!!!!!!


Imagine that. Go figure. What are the odds? :D

Don't those laws only apply if the bottles are being commercially transported? Can't I load my torch into the back of my truck and bring it to my buddies without having it standing straight up with caps on?

A bottle fell of a welding truck in front of my old house, the top busted off, and it shot it straight into the wall of the ditch, there was only about a foot of the bottle still sticking out. Its still there to this day.

We changed topics here.

The first one was about muffler loudness. Table 3 in Div'n 7 was put in place for mandatory annual inspections that were performed at Provincially run inspection stations. They had an area in the building where they had accoustic engineers hang accoustic matting so that a proper measurement to a specific standard could be performed. "Inspection station" (in the line above the table) does not mean your basic concrete repair shop.

Have a look at Sec. 7.03 of the Reg's tho. Especially sub 4.

Muffler
7.03 (1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be equipped with an exhaust muffler consisting of a series of pipes or chambers which ensures that the exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without excessive noise.

Cut-outs prohibited
(2) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine when the muffler with which the vehicle is equipped is cut out or disconnected from the engine.

Part removal prohibited
(3) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler from which has been removed any baffle plate or other part.

Alteration prohibited
(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.

Noise increase or flames prohibited
(5) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler or exhaust system to which is attached any device which increases the noise of the expulsion of the gases from the engine or allows a flame to be emitted from the exhaust system.

Did you say something about a widened tail pipe??

Second: Load Securement

First, be very careful about your assumption of what a "commercial vehicle" is. In BC, have a look in the Commercial Transport Act. Among other things it's a "motor vehicle having permanently attached to it a truck or delivery body..."

Sec. 35.032 applies to everything other than commercial vehicles (ie. a car) and it says (basically) that loads have to be tied down.

The next 10 or so sections apply to commercial vehicles (including your basic pickup truck) and they go into great detail as to how everything from soup to nuts has to be secured.

all my cars and truck have been loud i've never been asked about my mufflers of anything like that and all i run is a glass pack and no tail pipe, the key is to shut off you car before the cop gets out of theres haha,and the real key is to now how to treat a officer of the law one time i was polled over and i talked him out of giving me a vi and insted he gave me a road side vi him self, i think he was impressed cuz my feiro was beating a 78 chevy el camino lol.
yea i used to get tickets all the time and i only get them when my "N" is dispayed or i was driving one of my sports car's i've had my drivers licince for 3 years and now i'm just getting it back and there telling me i'm under the "new" ruels so i have to wait two more years to get rid of my "N" i think that cop's have a hate out for younger drivers and its age discrimanation. Is there a way off takeing this to court cuz i'm good in a court room.

If you're on the new rules, remember that you can only have one passenger.

As for glass packs.... they aren't mufflers as defined in the MVAR. The reg's says: "A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be equipped with an exhaust muffler consisting of a series of pipes or chambers which ensures that exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without excessive noise."

I have never considered glass packs to be mufflers; they're tubes with fibreglass wool inside of them.... for about a month....

sgt. steve i will run glass packs in all my trucks and i will get away with it tell i have a cop get on his nee's and go's under my truck and tell me he's a mechanic and prove to me i have a glass packs. also just one of my opinions i have had a vi before and im a preatty good back yarder for 19 and it's to my beleaf that a cop sould not be able to give a vi tell they become a real mechanic. cuz how does a officer tell that if you have no tread on your tire i've never had him pull out a tire tread gauge? but he said they where bold and i have a tire tread gauge in my truck and it was a safe tire buy gauge but not to the cop??????? well i'm still going with the age disgrimanaition......

Originally posted by peach
sgt. steve i will run glass packs in all my trucks and i will get away with it tell i have a cop get on his nee's and go's under my truck and tell me he's a mechanic and prove to me i have a glass packs. also just one of my opinions i have had a vi before and im a preatty good back yarder for 19 and it's to my beleaf that a cop sould not be able to give a vi tell they become a real mechanic. cuz how does a officer tell that if you have no tread on your tire i've never had him pull out a tire tread gauge? but he said they where bold and i have a tire tread gauge in my truck and it was a safe tire buy gauge but not to the cop??????? well i'm still going with the age disgrimanaition......

What?

Originally posted by peach
sgt. steve i will run glass packs in all my trucks and i will get away with it tell i have a cop get on his nee's and go's under my truck and tell me he's a mechanic and prove to me i have a glass packs. also just one of my opinions i have had a vi before and im a preatty good back yarder for 19 and it's to my beleaf that a cop sould not be able to give a vi tell they become a real mechanic. cuz how does a officer tell that if you have no tread on your tire i've never had him pull out a tire tread gauge? but he said they where bold and i have a tire tread gauge in my truck and it was a safe tire buy gauge but not to the cop??????? well i'm still going with the age disgrimanaition......


I agree.



Just what did he say?

Originally posted by peach
sgt. steve i will run glass packs in all my trucks and i will get away with it tell i have a cop get on his nee's and go's under my truck and tell me he's a mechanic and prove to me i have a glass packs. also just one of my opinions i have had a vi before and im a preatty good back yarder for 19 and it's to my beleaf that a cop sould not be able to give a vi tell they become a real mechanic. cuz how does a officer tell that if you have no tread on your tire i've never had him pull out a tire tread gauge? but he said they where bold and i have a tire tread gauge in my truck and it was a safe tire buy gauge but not to the cop??????? well i'm still going with the age disgrimanaition......

There is a wear bar indicator on all tires that shows the minimum tread depth on all tires, you don't need a depth gauge or eyes to tell if the tire is bald, a blind man can do it.

Originally posted by peach
sgt. steve i will run glass packs in all my trucks and i will get away with it tell i have a cop get on his nee's and go's under my truck and tell me he's a mechanic and prove to me i have a glass packs. also just one of my opinions i have had a vi before and im a preatty good back yarder for 19 and it's to my beleaf that a cop sould not be able to give a vi tell they become a real mechanic. cuz how does a officer tell that if you have no tread on your tire i've never had him pull out a tire tread gauge? but he said they where bold and i have a tire tread gauge in my truck and it was a safe tire buy gauge but not to the cop??????? well i'm still going with the age disgrimanaition......

I dare you to take that attitude when a cop pulls you over because your truck is too loud. I garantee he will find a reason to have your truck towed, or at least give you some hefty fines.

Perhaps you will grow up in a couple years and realize how loud and obnoxious glass packs are.

There is nothing wrong with cops issuing VI notices. You are right. They are not mechanics. That is why they issue VI notices, so that you take and get the truck inspected by a real mechanic.

From the attitude I get from reading your post(I apologize if I am mis interpreting it) I am thinking it's your atitude that gets you flack from the cops, not your age. I have never had problems with cops, and I had many runins with them when I was younger(I am not much older than you).

By the way....They don't have to prove your glass pack is not a muffler. They just have to decide it is too noisy.

Thanks Jarett.

Peach: Your post reads as very confrontational.

I could be wrong but I think that most people that come to this forum are looking for the traffic cop's opinion on a particular issue. My opinion on glass packs for the Province of British Columbia is that glass packs are not mufflers as defined by the Motor Vehicle Act Regulations. There are area vehicle inspectors with the same opinion. If you don't want to believe me, I can't help you.

The proof for mufflers is in the noise that they make. On one application is might not be too bad and on another it might be too noisy. A lot of it is how aggressively you drive. If you drive like you post messages, you'll get noticed.

PS: I do have (and use) a tread depth gauge but don't use it when the wear bars are at the surface.

yea i no my post sounds like im being agressif but i just have really bad spelling and grammer cuz when i get pulled over i get out of most of my tickets and i have never been pulled over when i dont dispaly my "n" so i feal when a officer see's a car or truck they mostly leave them alone for doing 10 over but the sec they see the "n" in the back window the lites turn on and theres a neather ticket for me. i have had a officer measure my stearing weel and gave me a 6 day noitice and order for a 1/4 inch to small. 13 inch is the leagle size i was told, but in my feiro my stock weel was 17 inch and my leg would hit it every time i let the cutch out so i had a smaller weel on for the reasion of safty. but i still had to change it.so im sorry its just i have got the most stuiped tickets before.(when i had sports cars with a 'N' in the window) but i have my truck now and dont get looked at twice so it's alll good now,and no "n" in the window.

Question: If a glass pack "isn't" a muffler, is a flowmaster or other turbo type muffler?

I'm referring to the definition in the Reg's that says "A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be equipped with an exhaust muffler consisting of a series of pipes or chambers which ensures that exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without excessive noise."

If it has "a series of pipes and chambers" then it only has to satisfy the second part: "...which ensures that exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without noise".

That second part is the part that gets noticed most often and I would say is the ultimate test. You could have a muffler that has a couple of "pipes and chambers" but when you turn the key, it's not quiet enough.

The comparison will always be made with a normal vehicle. Here's what the Vehicle Noise section in Inspection Standards says:

"The opinion of an inspector as to whether the engine and exhaust noise is greater than that made by other vehicles in good condition of comparable size, horsepower, piston displacement or compression ratio shall determine whether exhaust gases are expelled with excessive noise"

Skidmark: What's your take on this topic?

Originally posted by Sgt. Steve

"The opinion of an inspector as to whether the engine and exhaust noise is greater than that made by other vehicles in good condition of comparable size, horsepower, piston displacement or compression ratio shall determine whether exhaust gases are expelled with excessive noise"



So, then, if I have a 502 cubic inch big block chevy with 600hp, anything that is comparable would be equally as loud!:D

Originally posted by Sgt. Steve
"The opinion of an inspector as to whether the engine and exhaust noise is greater than that made by other vehicles in good condition of comparable size, horsepower, piston displacement or compression ratio shall determine whether exhaust gases are expelled with excessive noise"



...Or if I am riding my 105 cubic inch harley davidson bike with straightpipes, and you have it compared to another harley of the same configuration than there is no grounds for a noise violation and fine. Therefore, the police cannot enforce this regulation!

Ah, but straight pipes have no muffler. I don't have a problem issuing a 219(1) MVA ticket for this one.

Some people will try to find a loophole in everything.

:laugh

Originally posted by desteurm


...Or if I am riding my 105 cubic inch harley davidson bike with straightpipes, and you have it compared to another harley of the same configuration than there is no grounds for a noise violation and fine. Therefore, the police cannot enforce this regulation!

yea but its a harley so its all good harleys arnt supposed to be quiet ur sposed to be able to hear the from a block or 2 away
and as for the trucks whos cares if there noisy

pisses me off when people complain oh it hurts my ears it to loud "BOOHOO" suck it up ya pussies

it just pisses me off

Originally posted by mud-dog27


yea but its a harley so its all good harleys arnt supposed to be quiet ur sposed to be able to hear the from a block or 2 away
and as for the trucks whos cares if there noisy

pisses me off when people complain oh it hurts my ears it to loud "BOOHOO" suck it up ya pussies

it just pisses me off


It's hard to respond to a coment this stupid.:(

Ever heard a stock Harley? They have a really nice sound and are not loud.

^i expected this much of a response^
but loud ones are way better

Originally posted by bow350tie
Question: If a glass pack "isn't" a muffler, is a flowmaster or other turbo type muffler?

Yes, cause they have different chambers that take out certain soundwaves.

AFAIK glasspacks are constructed just like resonators except with fiberglass between the tubes. The ones with the scalloped inner tubes are more like mufflers than the ones where the inner tubes are just perforated.

I know there are a lot of new mufflers that look just like glasspacks (w/ straight through design) but ARE effective in keeping the noise down but still provide less restriction. They just installed one on a F@rd on Two Guys Garage last week.

Doesn't really matter I guess cause the way I interpret the VI, pretty much nothing that isn't close to the stock will be reason to fail. Whatever, I'll take my chances with the Flowmasters.

Originally posted by Sgt. Steve
Part removal prohibited
(3) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler from which has been removed any baffle plate or other part.

Alteration prohibited
(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.

Noise increase or flames prohibited
(5) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler or exhaust system to which is attached any device which increases the noise of the expulsion of the gases from the engine or allows a flame to be emitted from the exhaust system.

Originally posted by mud-dog27
^i expected this much of a response^
but loud ones are way better
sorry, but if you expected that as a response, why did you post?
fliptuner, i wouldnt worry about the flowmasters, on a traffic stop i dont think most cops get on their hands and knees to see exactly what exhaust you have, they will if where your pulled over the window on the house next to you breaks cause of how loud you are though :cool: even then you will probably just get a notice and a time frame to get it fixed... or a VI, depending on the cop and your attitude. I had REALLY, very loud mufflers on my truck that made it sound like a ricer on roids, i wasnt bothered but i swapped them out anyway cause they were annoying. they looked like stock mufflers, but were a straight through design oddly enough with barely any restriction in noise, i woulda been in trouble even though they looked like a multi chambered muffler.

Originally posted by skidmark
Ah, but straight pipes have no muffler. I don't have a problem issuing a 219(1) MVA ticket for this one.

I will believe it when I see it, how many times do you see a group of harleys pulled over by the five-o being issued MVI for the straight pipe mufflers. NEVER!

I dont mind loud harleys, but is it really necessary to wind out the motor on a residential street. I would like to find out where some of these bozos live and give them a taste of their own medicine in their neighbourhood...

I don't get down on my hands and knees. I put on coveralls and get my creeper out of the trunk....

creeper! come on :laugh ok i officially DONT want to run into you on a traffic stop!:clown

so if i have a glass pack and im under the sound desible and pass air care whats the big problem.

it isnt multi chambered.
If it has "a series of pipes and chambers" then it only has to satisfy the second part: "...which ensures that exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without noise".

Originally posted by peach
so if i have a glass pack and im under the sound desible and pass air care whats the big problem.

Technically, you'd fail an inspection if it was done to the letter. But if it's quiet and the inspector/cop is fine with it, then you're fine.

Some vehicles are a bit low for the creeper, but it is great for measuring air brakes on heavy vehicles.

I gotta ask Bryce if he has a creeper in the back... that actually would be a great piece of kit for his ccit stuff i would think? well maybe not... the ccit is mostly in the reconstruction of accidents right?

The CCIT is ALL about collision reconstruction.

All level I CVSA inspectors are issued creepers as part of their kit.

Originally posted by peach
so if i have a glass pack and im under the sound desible and pass air care whats the big problem.

The other problem with these is they are not effective spark arrestors. When out wheeling in dryer weather, you could start a forest fire because of your muffler. I sure wouldn't want that over my head.

I guy I know was pulled over in his late 80s Jimmy-Blazer S10 type of deal. He had just put on a new flowmaster exaust which the cop took exception to. The muffler makes his vehicle comparable to your regular old V8 pickup decible wise. Personally, I don't think it sounds good, but that's just an opinion, the intensity of the noise is well within the tolerable limits. When the officer came to his window 15 minutes later he was told that he was recieving a ticket for "uncourtious driving" because his muffler is too loud and another ticket for having a loud muffler. :confused: The officer then acted like he was being nice by not issuing a ticket for failing to place the N sign on the outside of the vehicle. (N's are commonly placed inside on the back window and come with a pouch to do so, this is not illegal and is the only way to not have your N stolen everyday at school)
In the end he was ticketed around $300 dollars! I feel sorry for the ricer tercel at my school, when he gets pulled over by this guy he's liable to get charged for attempted murder. Who knows, I could just be another pimly faced teenage brat with no regard for people who find certain sound waves irritable, but I think there is a case of descrimination here, either that or the cop is a big ford fan. ( judging by his thought patterns I wouldn't be surprised if he was :p )