More Cooling, two Radiators Parallel or Series? [Archive] - BB.BC4x4.COM

: More Cooling, two Radiators Parallel or Series?



thedjjack
July 26th, 2009, 07:51 pm
OK my Mercedes diesel powered Jeep FC170 overheats when climbing or if the Turbo is spooling to much (example Climbing out of Merritt to Kelowna where it is parked for living in right now).

It is a lack of Radiator (everything else is fine). I have no more room in the dog house so I want to add a second Radiator behind the cab between the camper. I have about a foot of space and the back of the cab is open to the engine (air source).

I have a new 2 core from a V8 Van and a Ford Taur-ass electric fan.

The question is Parallel or Series? How does one add two radiators about 3 feet apart?

Here is a link to the build: http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?t=123204
Here is a link an example of two radiators on my Jeep: http://thefcconnection.com/overheating_problems.htm

Cheers
David

Reaper
July 26th, 2009, 08:17 pm
i run in sereis

Tmax
July 26th, 2009, 08:51 pm
in theory parallel is better. the reason is that the more temp diffrence there is between the coolant and water, the more heat exchange. if you run in series, by the time you get to the second rad, there is not as much temp diffrence and hence less ificency. however if the coolant is already too hot exiting the first rad, then the second in series should cool it.


to be honest, i would stay away from multi rads. you risk too much complication on top of air locks and such. have you tried to have your rad cleaned out and redone?

Matt16
July 27th, 2009, 01:37 am
Never had any experience with this, but just thinking about it, here's what I can come up with:

In parallel should be better for cooling as outlined by Tmax AND if you did burst a hose in one system, you have a complete second system you can run off of if you can seal the first of the systems off.

BUT, have you cleaned out your rad or gone to an aluminum rad? Both of those might do the trick. As might Redline Water Wetter http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp?subCategoryID=4&coolantFlash=1

strstk
July 27th, 2009, 02:14 am
try an aluminum rad from BeCool or someone but make sure you put a shroud on it with a thermostat

if you run hot water through the rad and right back into the block its just going to build more and more heat but the thermostat gives the water in the rad time to sit and cool then it goes back in the block to cool the heads and upper half of the block

TCZuki
July 27th, 2009, 07:48 am
I've had similar experience, i had a 2 core and it kept over heating, so i got a 4 core and never had a problem again. the 4 core are expensive if you can find one, but hey so its a new engine if you over heat it.

Kinslayer
July 27th, 2009, 08:38 am
series is definitely going to be easier, and parallel is definitely going to be better.. also if you run more coolant you're going to have a longer warm up time..

if you run a rad in the rear make sure you use a hard line to the back, they last longer and don't flex..and will dump heat themselves.

thedjjack
July 27th, 2009, 07:23 pm
I have a 4 core in there now! It just is way to small in dimension due to the tunnel.

I have a good thermostat and it cools all day just not under boost for a long time. I can bring it down from 220 to 190 in 5 minutes by idling.

If I run them in Parallel I am worried that the flow will go through the radiator with the least resistance and skip the other radiator?

Series seems to have to go through both radiators?

Still not sure. Keep the opinions coming.

Tmax
July 27th, 2009, 07:28 pm
do you have enough room under the hood to put a small rad in sideways with and electric fan? you may just need that little bit. maybe even a small motorcaycle rad.

thedjjack
July 27th, 2009, 07:47 pm
No room. I had to mod the floor to clear the injector pump on one side and the turbo on the other.

With two radiators it would be about 3 feet apart of solid line with a T a the motor for it to hook into.

The stock radiator is located about the edge of the front of the seat. and you can see the grill in the back.

http://thefcconnection.com/overheating_1a.htm

and

http://thefcconnection.com/overheating_1b.htm

and

http://bb.bc4x4.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11165&d=1212165029

Kinslayer
July 28th, 2009, 08:18 am
hey uhhm, in my experience your motor shouldn't heat up that much under boost.. I've found that when you OVER boost or at least run it a little lean they tend to heat up quite a bit, quite quickly..

What PSI does your wastegate open at?

thedjjack
July 28th, 2009, 11:03 pm
No idea what the waste gate opens at? Motor is completely stock and I never adjusted anything on it. It ran fine in the car (little more aerodynamic).

Still think I will add the second radiator just to help out.

Tmax
July 28th, 2009, 11:05 pm
No idea what the waste gate opens at? Motor is completely stock and I never adjusted anything on it. It ran fine in the car (little more aerodynamic).

Still think I will add the second radiator just to help out.

i'm guessing you dont have a waste gate on your turbo.


hey do you have a seperate transmission cooler or does it go through your rad?

thedjjack
July 28th, 2009, 11:26 pm
No Transmission oil cooler in the Rad, cooler ahead of the Radiator.

It has the stock oil cooler in front of the radiator as well (limited on where it can go due to the metric cooler lines that no one seems to be able to build me for a price I can afford).

Not as much air movement around the turbo as in the car.

If parallel will allow flow through both radiators I think that would be the way to go.

Tmax
July 28th, 2009, 11:33 pm
have you considered using a lower temp thermostat? it does work on diesel unimogs when they run hot. you can get a 71 degree for mog motors.


last mounth during our whipsaw trip, one of the trucks was having a bit of over heating issue. same motor as yours. next time i talk to him, i'll ask to see what he did. btw he's razvan on the site. maybe pm him yourself.

strstk
July 29th, 2009, 01:04 am
insted of going to the expence of adding another rad why not try just adding an electric fan and shroud you`ll be amazed at how much just that will drop your temps then if that doesn`t work you can still add a second Rad but with the fan to aid in heat disapation and air movement

thedjjack
July 29th, 2009, 01:13 am
My original plan was to put the Taurus rad fan in but I do not have room for even a bigger electric fan then I am running.

I think the second rad is really the solution since it moves it out the side the tunnel.

I just want to not have to ever worry about the temperatures.

strstk
July 29th, 2009, 11:04 am
have a look at the ones from Flex-a-lite they some dual fans that are juat a couple inches thick much thiner than a second rad, and will pull air through causing air movement which sounds to me like thats more of your problem

Kinslayer
July 29th, 2009, 11:08 am
have a look at the ones from Flex-a-lite they some dual fans that are juat a couple inches thick much thiner than a second rad, and will pull air through causing air movement which sounds to me like thats more of your problem

Yeah now that you mention that, and ya look at the truck, being a cab over style..you're probably right..

He wants to stick a 2nd rad at the back of the cab though and blow air through it, I think it would work pretty well.


Is there any way you can increase airflow through the engine compartment? I mean by reducing 'stuff' that's in there to open it up a bit..

Kinslayer
July 29th, 2009, 11:12 am
hey dude if you need a small rad, look at a 1L sprint rad - those things are plentiful and cheap, small and should be easy to mount

strstk
July 29th, 2009, 11:21 am
to me just adding a second rad is just adressing the symtom not the problem.... if you fix the problem the symtom will fix its self besides a fan is cheeper then a new rad... i think that real problem is airflow, with the eddie that is formed at the back of the truck as air goes over the cab its not getting the required air through the rad to be efective causing over heating if it had a Van box on it,it would be getting more then enuff air to cool it (the box would inefect act like a airdam forceing the air to go over the radbehinde the cab)

A fan used as a puller (with a shroude) not a pusher is much more efective at cooling

Kinslayer
July 29th, 2009, 11:36 am
to me just adding a second rad is just adressing the symtom not the problem.... if you fix the problem the symtom will fix its self besides a fan is cheeper then a new rad... i think that real problem is airflow, with the eddie that is formed at the back of the truck as air goes over the cab its not getting the required air through the rad to be efective causing over heating if it had a Van box on it,it would be getting more then enuff air to cool it (the box would inefect act like a airdam forceing the air to go over the radbehinde the cab)

A fan used as a puller (with a shroude) not a pusher is much more efective at cooling

I disagree, a flex-a-lite fan is generally more expensive than a radiator..

And this is a motor that was never designed to run inside this vehicle.. the current set up could be wholly insufficient to cool it properly.

but yeah I agree that there are probably some airflow issues.

strstk
July 29th, 2009, 12:12 pm
I just said Flex-a lite because i know they have a slim line of fans that are not that expencive .... the last radi bought for my Blazer was 300bucks and i know that Be cool has chevy rads starting at 250 and a good flex a lite starts at 150.. the motor being not for that app is a mute point how many 350's are there in Jeep and yota's? ...how many sccuroco rads are in prostreet cars? lots...

Kinslayer
July 29th, 2009, 12:29 pm
just bein devils advocate heh. I think that cleaning out that tunnel for more airflow and potentially a second rad would probably resolve the issue.. it's a unique build with unique issues!

Hey, Eagle Talons have intercoolers where the air flow comes from the wheel well - maybe he can run a couple of small rads in his wheel wells..

strstk
July 29th, 2009, 01:04 pm
yep..... i know that the intercoolers are air to air not the best but its price point for the Manufacture......... the problem that i see with that is the lack of space in the wheel well and potential damage do to debree...by the way all I can see from the pics is a nice red X

Kinslayer
July 29th, 2009, 01:06 pm
yep..... i know that the intercoolers are air to air not the best but its price point for the Manufacture......... the problem that i see with that is the lack of space in the wheel well and potential damage do to debree...by the way all I can see from the pics is a nice red X

well I mean obviously you would use a water radiator in that situation.. something small. It's an idea, might not be feasable but it's a source of airflow

strstk
July 29th, 2009, 01:06 pm
True

3UR-FE
August 27th, 2009, 06:48 pm
Do you have an oil cooler on the engine? I couldnt find any mention of one.
It might not be enough extra cooling,but if you dont already have one it might be a good place to start,or if you do, a larger cooler like 15 row or better for a diesel im sure would help a lot

motorhead
August 27th, 2009, 09:34 pm
One other thing to try is removing your muffler (and restrictive pipe) and see if better exhaust flow helps dump the heat. Any performance diesel mods to modern engines require LARGE pipe to dump the heat - mostly to keep the turbo from melting - but it stands to reason that heat that can't escape and hangs around in the head and exhaust manifold will crank your coolant temps. Im fighting the same problem with a ford 300 in a 404 Unimog and thats my next step.