Winching and recovery etiquette.

[Biff]

While out last weekend, our group came across a stock, full-size truck that had gone off the forest service road, rolled once and was resting on a log about 40 feet down the bank on an old skidder road. It was heavily overgrown and the truck was generally operational. He had his buddy with a super duty truck at the top where the truck went off the road, but no winch on it. After some discussion, I offered to assist in winching it out if we had our snatch blocks (8000 lb winch), but we didn't have them, nor did we have any other trucks with winches. In the end, I decided that I didn't want to screw up my truck to try to pull him out, and since we were in cell phone range, and about a half KM from the pavement, we suggested a tow truck would be best and carried on.

In this case, the truck had a broken windshield and blown out rear window, as well as a caved in roof, so it would be a major heat score, if not illegal to drive it out anyhow.

So my question is this: at what point would YOU consider it reasonable to just refuse the tug, and recommend a tow truck?

Also, if the truck doing the recovery work is damaged either due to the pull or as a result of the recovery, then who would assume the responsibility for the repairs in your opinion? Is it even fair to suggest?

If this were to have happened way out in the remote wilderness, does the same still hold true?

Let's debate.

[Tmax]

there is no point trying if you are not equiped. would just be a waste of time.

[d0ubledown]

you did the right thing. saying your winch isnt capable as is..is more than enough to justify not doing it. if it were remote, id do what i can..but assure them that they buy a new winch should it crap out. give them food etc until you can get help to them...

[Dodgeboy96]

If you don't have the equipment necesary to git r done without screwing up yer own stuff, what can you do?

[Biff]

That's kinda my point, but IF, i had elected to giver a try and things got broken, then is it reasonable in any situation to ask someone to buck up for the fix? i understand that my workmanship or components of the truck coulda been weak or crappy, but it still becomes a he-said-she-said thing.

[canucksafari]

Recovering a stuck vehicle and one that has rolled down an embankment is two different things. The later is a technical recovery which requires some professional expertise and probably a commercial grade recovery winch. Also, as soon as you hook on to it, you become legally liable. Their liability is nothing unless it is in writing. If you don't know them, then this is a big concern. Best to do as you did.

I'd offer to help ensure the vehicle is stabilized and take one of them out to get professional help.

[fish4life]

no way ... as you said the winch is just not adequate for that type of recovery. I would give them food/water and offer to drive to down and get a tow truck but trying to recover him would just burn your winch and he would get nowhere anyways.... good move on your part.

[Goof]

It's reasonable to think they should pay for any damage you suffer while recovering their vehicle. However, I would never count on them actually doing so.

Trying to do something you arn't eqipped for will just damage your vehicle, their vehicle, could even get people hurt. You just have to do what you can. Using an underated winch to make an extreme pull could get someone killed (snaping cable).

Take one of them to cell reception to get proper help...
Take all of them out to safety (more important in the winter months)...
Stay with them until more help arrives (more important the more remote you are)...
Supply then with food/water/etc...

Do what you can, but don't try to do what you can't.

[Lone Ranger]

I am extremely leary about winching/pulling anyone's vehicle who I don't know. If they were in the group I was with and needed a hand then of course, but otherwise no.

If I hooked up to their vehicle and something broke on theirs, yea, of course most would pursue me for damages. If my winch/equipment broke then most likely I'd be SOL for the cost of repairs. Just the way I see it.

Most definitely make sure they're safe and unharmed though. LR

[waltman]

You did the right thing. If something broke on your vehicle while doing a recovery, then although you should be compensated, I would not bet money that a stranger would re-emburse you. I would only attempt a recovery like that with someone I knew, or was assured I could get re-embursed.
But since the accident happened so close to civilization, the best bet is to let a proffesional to do the recovery, without a doubt.

[Lone Ranger]

the best bet is to let a proffesional to do the recovery

Actually, probably the biggest thing here is liability issues. Tow companies are insured but we are not in regards to 3rd party accidents - ie, winch cable breaks or the recovered vehicle moves the wrong way and crushes somebody. I believe ICBC only covers if the vehicle does the damage in an accident, but I'm pretty sure not if you're winching another vehicle (would require specific recovery insurance). I know I wouldn't want the liability regarding hurting someone!! LR

[Daddy Style]

My experience, you are taking on all liabilty if something goes wrong wether your truck, additional damage to t/p vehicle or personal injury.

The good samaritian act MAY come into effect but do not hold your breath.

You used your head and did the right thing. There are option's like a ride, phone or food that are a little less risky.

[HEAVY METAL]

holy...i cant believe you wouldnt help. ride for a phone ..anything. a memeber of our site got him out..with a 9000lb winch no block. and geuss what no damage too buddies truck and the rolled truck drove home...

better be careful drivin away from peeps that need help... karma is a bitch.

[lars]

holy...i cant believe you wouldnt help. ride for a phone ..anything. a memeber of our site got him out..with a 9000lb winch no block. and geuss what no damage too buddies truck and the rolled truck drove home...

better be careful drivin away from peeps that need help... karma is a bitch.
I'm glad he got out but I can't fault the OP for his decision, either. You do what you can. Some people are willing to take more risk, or have the experience to assess the risks more accurately. If it's a matter of safety, then sure, help them out by making a call or giving them a ride back into town. But it sounds like safety wasn't an issue so I can't fault the OP for what he did.

...lars

[Zuk Rider]

If you break your own vehicle trying to help others out....in my opinion, the cost is all yours. You decided to act upon something using your vehicle so why expect others to pay for it? I've had items go wrong with my rig due to helping others but never expected them to recify it in any way - it was my choice to help.
That being said, if something goes wrong with their rig while I'm helping them.... well it was their choice to ask for my help so I believe they've got the responsibility to take care of it.
When wheeling with friends its nice because you know everyone's going to help fix each other's rigs in the event of a break. But when it's people you don't know, you can't really expect that. So as long as you take that into consideration, then you're making an informed decision.

For third party liability - in the event that someone gets hurt/killed - i have no idea who would be liable. But my guess would be that it completely depends on the situation and the exact events leading up to the death/injury.

[Bronco Boy]

If you aren't comfortable or equipped for the pull, don't do it. Do what you can.

I saw pictures of the recovery, and it looked pretty straight forward, but when winching, anything can happen. The last thing you need is to start a recovery that you can't finish, and you end up making things worse.

I would never expect somebody to winch me out of something like that. As long as they stopped and tried to help in some way, that is good enough for me.

[sdillen]

My first concern is the safety of the people, and I'd offer whatever help I could to make sure that they were looked after, which could include offering food/water/transport to cellular coverage/transport to wherever needed/securing the rollover so gear can be extracted from it(if safe). The truck is just a machine, and if either my gear is not up to the task of extracting it OR I'm otherwise uncomfortable with hooking onto the rollover for ANY reason, I won't. In remote wilderness, the same rules apply (even more so, because if I break my truck, then we're BOTH potentially stuck).

If I do offer to help pull someone else's truck, I assume that anything that breaks on my truck is my own fault (and at my own cost). While it'd be nice to think that the other party would offer to pay to fix it, the reality is that it's not going to happen. I'm also concerned about breaking something on the truck being extracted....If I break it, it seems like there's a reasonable probability that I have to fix it.

I consider this even if winching someone in a "normal" situation...if there's no proper attachment point for my winch cable, or I think either vehicle may break, I'm not likely to hook on.

[Tmax]

too many people worry about liability. if you can help safely then you do. if you cant, then youre just wasting your time and others by trying while you could be doing something usefull like going for help.

i have helped many in the past and a few times have broken my equipment. in that case, i was happy that they broke (found the week link)

last fall i was participating in the mainland cup for recovery help. broke both of my winches. didnt care or expect for anyone to pay for it. i also enjoy helping others becasue it gives you a very good feeling.

by the posts, this seems like a simple case. the truck was safe and close to the road so no big deal if you couldnt help.

[DMMcG]

too many people worry about liability. if you can help safely then you do. if you cant, then youre just wasting your time and others by trying while you could be doing something usefull like going for help.

i have helped many in the past and a few times have broken my equipment. in that case, i was happy that they broke (found the weak link)

last fall i was participating in the mainland cup for recovery help. broke both of my winches. didnt care or expect for anyone to pay for it.

Good points.

If you're using your own stuff, then if you break, you break it. I don't expect anybody to pay me for breakage when it's me doing the breaking. My decision. My stuff. My risk.

While I rarely end up having to winch anybody (seems that everyone's pretty independently 'winched up' when I'm out), when I do, I like to know that I can trust those who throw in to help, or check the rigging myself. The biggest issue that arises when winching is the driver behind the wheel of the vehicle being winched.....seems that those needing the hook are too often those who will do unpredictable things while on the hook.

Anyway, we all have out own level of comfort. Proper etiquette to me includes respecting a person's judgment of what they feel comfortable in doing.

[HEAVY METAL]

cant tell ya how ,much ive wrecked/ damaged on my truck helpin people...and will continue too do so. i pride myself on having a tuff truck that is capable of helping others.

but i do agree with sas...if cant...dontbother. couple yrs ago up at jones i tried too help aguy who rolled over the bank in a fullsize chev ( his dads). i dont have a winch so tryied too pull him up with straps. well that didnt work so well.. he started comin up then went over a drop off and rolled numerous times pullin my truck which was givin her with it. if it didnt hit a tree i was prolly goin over the edge too.as it was we had too cut the starp off as i had no room too back up. so yeah it can get a lil scary and dangerous for both parties involved.

[lornix]

I have been in this situation a few times. People see me coming and they think .."right on, he has a winch, the day is saved!.." However, being a stripped down XJ I come in around 3500 lbs and cannot actually pull very much with it ... just too damned light. I also have an 8000lb winch that gets me over some obstacles, but again, a little small for recovery by itself.

I generally explain why I cannot attempt a recovery and offer a ride, or food / beverage, and once I even offered to stay with a couple in the black of night until help arrived. Dumb asses were in a car that had pidgeon-toed on them up Chehalis way when it was open.

I do what I can when I can, but choose my battles wisely. No sense in having 2 trucks buggered when a ride or a phone call will accomplish the same thing. But like others here, I will help secure the rig and get the gear out, make sure no one is hurt etc.

[jeeper]

Ive always helped when I can and am equiped to do so !

I would not expect the other party to pay for my winch if it crapped out or any damage I did to my own vehichle -------If they offered then thats a bonus !


BUT -I always try to make it clear that theres always a good chance that more damage may happen to their truck , and its their call if they want to try !


Its guys Like Dean and Sass and others that always have gone outa there way to help others even putting their trucks at risk in the process ! Like Sass said It feels good to help and As Dean said -Karmas a bitch !


Bruce

[steve604]

i wouldn't have helped in the situation described in the original post. the guy rolled his truck, it was going to be a bich to get out and his buddy with a truck was there to get help. if you trekked out on a logging road without a sandwich or anything to eat/drink or recovery gear then you are going to be hungry for the day.

it all depends on the situation. i've come across guys that are trying to pull each other out with chains that have pulled the tow hooks out of the the stuck truck and broken the windshield of the truck that is doing the pulling in the whole process. all the while every guy in the situation is holding a beer and a couple of the guys are pissed off. this is not a place for me to offer help.

[barracuda]

I cant believe no one has mentioned the most important thing.



Is it a really hot woman that is stuck???:p

[tag92yj]

I cant believe no one has mentioned the most important thing.



Is it a really hot woman that is stuck???:p

>then who's pullin what???:eek:

[Tmax]

something tells me you guys are trying to highjack. there is something to get back on track:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Uid_jKk2s

[barracuda]

i have broken stuff and had roasted winch for dinner helping out a friend. It kinda goes with the territory and i can accept that ,

If you can do it within reason by all means help if you can, if you cannot or it is beyonds you or your vehicle capability then simply say so nobody should pressure you into it.

I have been stuck and rather then run the risk of damaging another persons winch i have declined their offer which i also think is the right thing to do.

[tag92yj]

something tells me you guys are trying to highjack. there is something to get back on track:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Uid_jKk2s

>Cool vid,though it looked like they left it in gear.Standing way too close to the line too.May be it was just the angle.WAY COOL recovery rig

[gavman]

Just stopping and offering any help is a great start.
If it's seems too much for your truck/winch and is outside your safety level then you have every right to refuse to do the actual pulling.
Me I love a challenge and would likely have tried at least a wee bit but I do know the limits of my truck too.
Also influencing the decision to help is the driver that is stuck, and his ability to follow my instructions and not get all heated and try to muscle their way out whilst helping.
Every situation is different and i can find no fault in the op not hooking up if he felt uncomfortable.

[jeeper]

something tells me you guys are trying to highjack. there is something to get back on track:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Uid_jKk2s]



I remember that recovery :)

Was a cold wet day , but no prob for the Mog !


Bruce



I was hidin under rain gear that afternoon for sure :)

[shancerlelby]

nice recovery vid. if the mog cant get it out then you just tow it out with gas and a match.

[Tmax]

>Cool vid,though it looked like they left it in gear.Standing way too close to the line too.May be it was just the angle.WAY COOL recovery rig

nice recovery vid. if the mog cant get it out then you just tow it out with gas and a match.

thanks guys. yap it was a hard but steady pull and it was much steaper than it looks.

like jeeper said, god was mad that day. rained like hell.

[Lone Ranger]

Yea, vid's and pic's definitely don't do much justice usually. The one saving grace with a vehicle left in gear during recovery is that when you stop pulling it might stay put, but it definitely does put a lot more strain on the winch.

Myself, I am not setup for that sort of recovery. My little 8000 lb winch sitting on a receiver has no business doing that sort of work (short of an absolute emergency), but Sass's Mog is setup far better and is capable of that sort of work.

More what I was implying about with liabilities is if you offer to help with an unknown group, someone's somehow hurt in the process (or truck damaged), and then they decide to sue for damages. I know 99% of the guys out there wouldn't, but some people are dicks and would. I'm just leary about getting myself into that sort of situation thats all. LR

[stephane]

Anything is possible, if you have the right equipment. Would have loved to have seen this recovery in person:

http://tow411.yuku.com/topic/44761/t/Toyota-Landcruiser-wrecker-vs-23000kg-excavator.html?page=1

Edit: Great! just great! That site is going to keep me from getting any work done for at least a week....

[Greg]

So my question is this: at what point would YOU consider it reasonable to just refuse the tug, and recommend a tow truck?
Would have to be a pretty difficult recovery before I'd consider not helping a fellow 4-wheeler out. If you have the equipment, knowlege, and experience, you can recover just about anything, and usually damage-free. Although there are some situations where there is no way to recover the vehicle without additional damage, just because of how and where it's sitting. If that's the case, I'd explain the likely recovery procedure and advise the owner that damage will definitely occur, and leave it up to the owner if he/she still wanted the recovery attempted, with the understanding that he/she is solely responsible for any damage sustained during the recovery. So far, I haven't damaged anyone's vehicle during a recovery.

However, if the recovery was such that I knew my truck would suffer extensive damage, or that my winch wasn't strong enough, or that I just wasn't confident that I could pull it off, then I would tell the owner and refuse the recovery. I think I have enough recovery experience that I'd know whether or not I could do it and if my recovery gear was suitable for the task.

Biff, in your case, you didn't have the equipment to do the job properly so you were right to refuse. (Where the heck was your winch accessory kit? What if YOUR truck needed a recovery?)

Some of you will remember this thread. It's a slightly different situation because all of the tow companies refused to attempt it, and we weren't worried about additional damage. Rather than encountering the truck on the trail, I "encountered" the post on BC4x4. I'd never met the owner before.
http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?t=54323

If I had broken anything of mine, I wouldn't have expected anyone but me to pay for it. I did, after all, volunteer for the recovery. As it happened, the only thing that got broken was a marker lens on my ARB bumper (truck got pulled forward into a tree trunk during one of the winching sessions). I wasn't worried about it, but Chris insisted on paying for it.

I do enjoy the challenge of a technical recovery. Now I do it with ATVs. :D

Greg

[Lone Ranger]

Now I do it with ATVs.

Hehe Recovering an 800 lb ATV vs a 6000 lb 4x4 are two totally different things too!! My Ranger would winch one up a hill like Sass's Mog did that YJ! Heck, its 2000 lb Warn and tiny single battery will pull my Grizz up hills all day long without complaints...

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'd always do my absolute best to help when possible, sometimes too much (and occasionally even get to be annoying about it). I won't leave anyone stranded and breaking my equipment trying to help doesn't bother me. The guess the thing I'm getting at is that my truck's pretty small and built for minor extractions, not for taking on a full on rollover recovery. One day I hope to own something capable enough for it but for now this is what I have. But don't think for one sec that I wouldn't at least stop to offer any help possible!! LR

[Tmax]

Would have to be a pretty difficult recovery before I'd consider not helping a fellow 4-wheeler out. If you have the equipment, knowlege, and experience, you can recover just about anything, and usually damage-free. Although there are some situations where there is no way to recover the vehicle without additional damage, just because of how and where it's sitting. If that's the case, I'd explain the likely recovery procedure and advise the owner that damage will definitely occur, and leave it up to the owner if he/she still wanted the recovery attempted, with the understanding that he/she is solely responsible for any damage sustained during the recovery. So far, I haven't damaged anyone's vehicle during a recovery.

However, if the recovery was such that I knew my truck would suffer extensive damage, or that my winch wasn't strong enough, or that I just wasn't confident that I could pull it off, then I would tell the owner and refuse the recovery. I think I have enough recovery experience that I'd know whether or not I could do it and if my recovery gear was suitable for the task.

Biff, in your case, you didn't have the equipment to do the job properly so you were right to refuse. (Where the heck was your winch accessory kit? What if YOUR truck needed a recovery?)

Some of you will remember this thread. It's a slightly different situation because all of the tow companies refused to attempt it, and we weren't worried about additional damage. Rather than encountering the truck on the trail, I "encountered" the post on BC4x4. I'd never met the owner before.
http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?t=54323

If I had broken anything of mine, I wouldn't have expected anyone but me to pay for it. I did, after all, volunteer for the recovery. As it happened, the only thing that got broken was a marker lens on my ARB bumper (truck got pulled forward into a tree trunk during one of the winching sessions). I wasn't worried about it, but Chris insisted on paying for it.

I do enjoy the challenge of a technical recovery. Now I do it with ATVs. :D

Greg

greg thats a great recovery and team work.

:beer_cheers:

[ChevyBeast]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'd always do my absolute best to help when possible,

This brings to mind a certain someone who went in a stave mud puddle up to his waist to hook a strap to my blazer, and it wasnt summer either...:beer_cheers:

[Lone Ranger]

Ahhh yes.. I remember that, a rather cold afternoon in shorts and bare feet fishing out a rather "swamped" Blazer!! Hey, didn't that trip spawn a 300 post rant about your repayment of a case of beer on another run and me and a few other guys there polishing it off cause the clinking was driving me nuts :laugh :laugh Ahhh the good ol' days eh lol. Good fun though. LR

[ChevyBeast]

Ahhh yes.. I remember that, a rather cold afternoon in shorts and bare feet fishing out a rather "swamped" Blazer!! Hey, didn't that trip spawn a 300 post rant about your repayment of a case of beer on another run and me and a few other guys there polishing it off cause the clinking was driving me nuts :laugh :laugh Ahhh the good ol' days eh lol. Good fun though. LR

Yep the good ole days...

[msquared]

holy...i cant believe you wouldnt help. ride for a phone ..anything. a memeber of our site got him out..with a 9000lb winch no block. and geuss what no damage too buddies truck and the rolled truck drove home...

better be careful drivin away from peeps that need help... karma is a bitch.

Keep in mind that these guys were .5 kms from pavement, the vehicle went off the road the night before, and the two guys had another fully functional vehicle sitting there that was getting ready to be strapped up. Food/Water/Rides were not an issue and biff of all people goes above and beyond to help out anyone with anything, any time.

Also, I know biff didn't want to get into this, but upon offering to go find someone we saw further back on the trail with a receiver mount 9000 lbs winch that could slip into the hitch receiver on their full size that was on the road, we were met with an argument and attitude about how biff's FJ40's frame is stronger than the F250 or whatever it was sitting there and therefor the FJ should do the tug.

We were still trying to figure out another solution when the one guy in particular got pretty frustrated. We wound up leaving after a bit more verbal abuse from him regarding how biff was apparently obligated to help.

Either way, I'm glad to hear the guys got out of there ok.

[steve604]

if you want someone's help you need to lose all attitude or pay a tow truck driver to come and do it as his job. i need my weekends to relax and have fun NOT spend time around miserable biches.

[waltman]

The only thing I am OBLIGATED to do, is prevent someone from dying if I can help it, beyond that, I don't HAVE to do anything. I do what I can, and have, but from the sounds of this accident, combined with the fact it was someone I don't even know giving me attitude, I would say good bye and move on.
If it was hours from anywhere, I would be more likely to see what I could do, but even then, if I got attitude I would not risk my truck or my safety.

[82 yota 4x4]

cant believe i didn't see this sooner, well, it was my superduty at the top and my buddies truck, at the bottom, we had a root planned to get the truck out and there was only 3 spots where the truck needed winching, it drove the rest and he drove it back to my shop in abby, i had a 30' strap as well as about 100' of chain with the smallest rated at about 14000lbs and the largest rated at god know what, it was of a tug boat, 3/4" thick links,the only difference between you guys and everyone else that drove buy is you guys stopped and thought about helping, props to you for that, everyone else just said call a wrecker with huge winch in the end a truck with a warn 8274 pulled it out,, i was not pissed off at the guy in the landcruiser or most of the other guys there as one of them helped find a program i had been looking for and i'm pretty sure the guy in the fj40 has helped me out before when i had my toy on the road, i was pissed of at the person who stood there shooting every idea down, they didn't think the fj couldn't do it wasn't heavy enough, i offered my truck as an anchor, and how you can't use anything to get more range on you winch, has to be the winch cable and nothing else,that guy pissed me off cause he shot down every idea except the one to leave. thats when i left frusterated and started hooking up the come along
i have allways stopped to help no matter what, i've once i pulled out a k5 blazer on 38's that was sitting on the frame in mud without a winch in a stockish 89 4runner on 35's, with an auto to make it worse took about 45 minutes of getting a really good run at it, the wwhole point in this is it didn't take alot to get it out, i was about to do it with a come along, just would have taken longer,if i see you guys up there and you need help i'll do what i can, but that one person is **** out of luck

and if you guys call saying karma is a bitch verbal abuse, well, i won't get into that, and there is no plug on my truck so it makes it kind of hard to run a winch off it, i thought the fj40 were boxed frame, you guys corrected me and said the f250's was thicker as well, thats when you offered to see if you can find the guy with the reciever, but there is no plug on my truck, it's pretty sad that i am looking at winch bumpers and winches for my daily driver

[82 yota 4x4]

i also don't recall anyone actually looking at the root planned to get the truck out, please correct me if i am wrong, every one stood on the road, a mildly built vehilce could drive it


and here is the link to the recovery
http://www.funinbc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90871

[82 yota 4x4]

mods, if there is any problems with my previos 2 posts please delete them as this thread could be usefull to others, who are new to wheeling

[lars]

mods, if there is any problems with my previos 2 posts please delete them as this thread could be usefull to others, who are new to wheeling
I think your posts were fair comment and they certainly illustrate the adage that there are two sides to every story.

...lars

[Biff]

Although i did map out the route that you suggested, i had a number of other factors to consider, which is why i didn't offer more assistance.

1. hungry 5 year old who had to #2 and didn't want to do it in the bush
2. blown front driveshaft u bolt cap (done earlier that day)
3. less than stelar frame condition
4. 125 KM drive home which would end up a hella tow bill if i broke
5. incomplete recovery equipment kit (shackles, snatch block)
6. temporary and unrated (and only 3) bolts holding the winch on. actual bolts in my truck, but larger holes needed to fit through the holes in the bumper
7. bumper only scab welded on due to rush-to-get-to-the-trail for May long situation. Truck sitting in the garage the rest of the time.
8. low fuel / hungry myself.

What we were suggesting was to mount the receiver winch on the super duty and run out cable. then just drive it out. no battery power needed.

All in all, i'm glad to see that you made it out. Our friend dropped a white nissan off a cliff on September long and we didn't recover it ourselves. It took ICBC's tow truck a LOT of tugging, dragging and other BS to get it out, thus our reservations given the points mentioned above.

Again, my apologies for not stepping up.

[waltman]

i also don't recall anyone actually looking at the root planned to get the truck out, please correct me if i am wrong, every one stood on the road, a mildly built vehilce could drive it


and here is the link to the recovery
http://www.funinbc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90871
Glad to hear the other side of the story. Without actually being there, I can't say for sure I would help, but I can assure you I would stop to see what the situation was and go from there.
By the way, as a non member on the other site, I can't see any of the pics so all I see are words.
Although i did map out the route that you suggested, i had a number of other factors to consider, which is why i didn't offer more assistance.

1. hungry 5 year old who had to #2 and didn't want to do it in the bush
2. blown front driveshaft u bolt cap (done earlier that day)
3. less than stelar frame condition
4. 125 KM drive home which would end up a hella tow bill if i broke
5. incomplete recovery equipment kit (shackles, snatch block)
6. temporary and unrated (and only 3) bolts holding the winch on. actual bolts in my truck, but larger holes needed to fit through the holes in the bumper
7. bumper only scab welded on due to rush-to-get-to-the-trail for May long situation. Truck sitting in the garage the rest of the time.
8. low fuel / hungry myself.

What we were suggesting was to mount the receiver winch on the super duty and run out cable. then just drive it out. no battery power needed.

All in all, i'm glad to see that you made it out. Our friend dropped a white nissan off a cliff on September long and we didn't recover it ourselves. It took ICBC's tow truck a LOT of tugging, dragging and other BS to get it out, thus our reservations given the points mentioned above.

Again, my apologies for not stepping up.

Sounds like a few lame excuses to me, but from what you described in your earlier post, like I said earlier, you did the right thing. I don't know what direction this thread will go at this point, but I suggest you keep this sort of thing to yourself.

[Mike Wild]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600172028Small29.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600202028Small29.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600202028Small29.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600242028Small29.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600262028Small29.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600272028Small29.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600282028Small29.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/P70600302028Small29.jpg

[craigske]

Getting back to the thread topic, in my previous thread http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?t=130782 I was thanking Dean for towing my buddy out. In an interesting turn of events, Dean actually bent the front tierod so bad the toein was like 15 degrees. We felt terrible that he broke his truck helping us. He managed to limp it to the road for a tow, so we waited for the tow truck to show up, and even offered to pay for the tow.

I personally believe that what comes around goes around eventually. I've never been abandoned by anyone in the back country, and have frequently received and given help. In fact, I'll go out of my way to tow, or provide whatever help I can. Ultimately the 4x4 community is whatever we make it.

We can either help each other or end up stuck and f***ed. I personally prefer to help. I also believe that you take personal responsibility for your gear when you volunteer it, and as such shouldn't bitch too much when it breaks. Unless of course, there is no beer offered. That's just a courtesy that can't be overlooked when receiving help.

I think the point on liability is a good one. If its a serious recovery and probably dangerous, then it should be taken very seriously before being attempted.

Anyway, my two cents.

[4Lo]

X2. If you volunteer your resources you need to expect to pay for your own repairs. If the other party offers to reimburse cough cough router....then that's cool too but I wouldn't hold my breath.:D

[82 yota 4x4]

the only thing that either of us can recall is you mentioning the single c channel frame

and i was reluctant to use my ford because the slip yoke on the rear drive shaft is fuct, right now it pretty much only gets driven to and from work which is about a 15min drive at a whopping speed of 50

[Dodgeboy96]

I helped a couple today that had blown a rear tire on their 97 mustang up the west harrison FSR. What they were doing up there in a mustang I do not know. It turned from lending them a few tools- they had no jack, no lug wrench - buddies girlfriend had removed them from the vehicle to free up some storage space evidently- and a flat temp tire. AND they were drunk. We're talkin a whole car full of empties drunk. Beer was offered many times through the process and even though I enjoy many beers often, (who doesn't love beer??!?) now was not quite the time. They said 5 people had passed them on the way out and didn't even slow down to ask if assistance was needed. It was pretty obvious what the problem was as the rear tire was shredded off the rim due to them driving for some distance on the fukt tire so they wouldn't have to change it...this was the explanation i got from them. Wish I had been the 6th drive by. So watching as this guy pathetically tried to change his first tire ever all wasted, I stepped up to get the job done so i could get my tools back and get the hell outta there. So what do they do after I get the tiny temp tire on there and pumped up.... They bust a lefty down one of the trails that leads to the lake. Some people just don't learn. None of my gear was damaged but precious time was pissed away....

[frank]

I do my best to avoid getting anyone moving again if their all p*ssed up. Just what I need, them killing themselves or others.
Not coming down on you Dodgeboy, or anyone else for that matter, I just regard it as my obligation not to get drunk people driving again. I'll give them a ride, etc., but I won't help them fix their vehicles or recover them.

[jeeper]

Well !


I just had to help this ford guy get outa my backyard !


He put his truck where he knew it wouldnt go ! It was a jeep only trail !


So I went out in the dark to rescue a ford product ! It took not just one but two good pulls from my 8274 !


Man -------Youd think they would know better then to get stuck in my backyard :)


Bruce

[Mike Wild]

Well !


I just had to help this ford guy get outa my backyard !


He put his truck where he knew it wouldnt go ! It was a jeep only trail !


So I went out in the dark to rescue a ford product ! It took not just one but two good pulls from my 8274 !


Man -------Youd think they would know better then to get stuck in my backyard :)


Bruce
'


have I told you lately that I hate you?

:D

[Mike Wild]

oh... and thanks for putting your beer down long enough to pull me out! :D

here's the results of that loud crack that was heard 'round the world!!

first the stuck
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/CopyofIMG_9729_1.jpg

then the bang!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/Winching%20and%20recovery%20etiquette/CopyofIMG_9730.jpg

thanks Bruce:beer

[waltman]

Ouch!!!!! Bad hub, BAD HUB!!!

[82 yota 4x4]

its ok, it doesn't need that part lol

[Lone Ranger]

Damn! I'm impressed!! I know Ranger hubs ain't the strongest in the world but you still don't see that often. LR

[jeeper]

Damn! I'm impressed!! I know Ranger hubs ain't the strongest in the world but you still don't see that often. LR


He shouldnt have gone down that Jeep trail :)


Bruce !

[Lone Ranger]

I'm goinna hafta head out there and show him up there :D LR

[jeeper]

I'm goinna hafta head out there and show him up there :D LR



Anytime Matt:D




Ille winch you out as well :)


Bruce

[Lone Ranger]

hahaha I got my own winch but I'm humble enough to accept a pull from anyone... even from a Jeep (if reeeeally need be!! hahaha).. Hey, guess I can't speak cause Mike pulled me once up on the 'saw with his CJ (shhhh don't tell anyone!!) hahahaha LR

[jeeper]

hahaha I got my own winch but I'm humble enough to accept a pull from anyone... even from a Jeep (if reeeeally need be!! hahaha).. Hey, guess I can't speak cause Mike pulled me once up on the 'saw with his CJ (shhhh don't tell anyone!!) hahahaha LR

The pics Mike (mikewild) posted dont show the trail :)


I walked it tonight after watchin the deer for a few hours , A nice trail :)


It was a quad trail before Mike drove it :)


bruce

[Mike Wild]

It was a quad trail before Mike drove it :)


bruce

Just breaking it in for the jeeps to follow!! :clown

[Bronco Boy]

Damn! I'm impressed!! I know Ranger hubs ain't the strongest in the world but you still don't see that often. LR
Bah! Mike can break pretty much anything. What RPM did it go Ka-Boom at Mike? 4000rpm? 5000rpm? :laugh

[Mike Wild]

Bah! Mike can break pretty much anything. What RPM did it go Ka-Boom at Mike? 4000rpm? 5000rpm? :laugh



pfffft those are sissy RPM's REDLINE BABY...REDLINE! :D

it was the 'pop' heard 'round the world. The BCJeep guys heard it all the way back on Bruce's deck! :D

[waltman]

pfffft those are sissy RPM's REDLINE BABY...REDLINE! :D

it was the 'pop' heard 'round the world. The BCJeep guys heard it all the way back on Bruce's deck! :D

:laugh that's funny. I should make up my famous burgers and pop by next Saturday...then I can show you how a grown up Ford does it...successfully.

[jeeper]

:laugh that's funny. I should make up my famous burgers and pop by next Saturday...then I can show you how a grown up Ford does it...successfully.



What? So Sass can drag another broken fullsize ford out ?


:beer_cheers:

[Mike Wild]

:laugh that's funny. I should make up my famous burgers and pop by next Saturday...then I can show you how a grown up Ford does it...successfully.


What???? aren't you worried about snow and poor tire conditions? :poke: :laugh

[waltman]

What? So Sass can drag another broken fullsize ford out ?


:beer_cheers:
Nope, will never happen. I plan on bringing matches:soso
What???? aren't you worried about snow and poor tire conditions? :poke: :laugh

ouch, that hurt....but now that you mention it:cwm36::finger_1::laugh

[Tmax]

Nope, will never happen. I plan on bringing matches:soso


no matches please. the truck is worth more in scrap value if its not burned :poke:

[Mike Wild]

The pics Mike (mikewild) posted dont show the trail :)


I walked it tonight after watchin the deer for a few hours , A nice trail :)


It was a quad trail before Mike drove it :)


bruce


i just about forgot about this thread!


Here's Bruce's so called 'jeep trail'

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday016.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday013.jpg

I went off the left side and got hung up on the beam

But all in all it was worth it just to be able to come back with the exploder to do this

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday007.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday010.jpg

The exploder is sooo good I winched him out with booster cables! :D

[jeeper]

i just about forgot about this thread!


Here's Bruce's so called 'jeep trail'

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday016.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday013.jpg

I went off the left side and got hung up on the beam

But all in all it was worth it just to be able to come back with the exploder to do this

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday007.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/dawebpics/stuff/Canaday010.jpg

The exploder is sooo good I winched him out with booster cables! :D

Welll



I got her good and stuck a few minutes back :)


Im gonna need a winch out for sure ! Far to many prickle bushes to try and use my winch !






So HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









Thanks Bruce
Im High centered on a 48 inch concrete draniage pipe !

[Mike Wild]

:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh

I'll be out there tomorrow with the exploder to try out my brand spank'en new 10,000lb winch! Looks like there's more pics to come! Thank God you drive a jeep Bruce! :redneck

[jeeper]

Bugger :)


But Thanks :)


Bruce

[jeeper]

:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh

I'll be out there tomorrow with the exploder to try out my brand spank'en new 10,000lb winch! Looks like there's more pics to come! Thank God you drive a jeep Bruce! :redneck



Will Your expolder even make it to where Im hung up?



Bruce :)