tankless hot water heaters

[crazyguy]

anybody have one? did you have it to start or swap from a hot water tank to a tankless unit? just doing some thinking so I can plan for it down the road(cause hot water tanks have the bad habbit of dying randomly).

I have a natural gas hot water tank now but I have been reading they make both gas and electric tankless. not sure how much difference in operating costs there would be between electric and gas, but it sounds like the electric ones will last longer and have better warrenty.

[lilx]

havnt used one here, but back in Japan my wifes familly has one. only turns it on when they need hot water (its gas and utilities are hella high there) the only problem with it is it does smell a fair amount when you have the window nearest to it open. It takes about 4 mins to have hot water and can pour a bath and have multiple showers while not worring about still having hot water. I am not sure if the ones here are the same or much different, but I am planning on getting one

[jeeper]

Ive installed many !

I dont think the savings in fuel will cover the installation costs for many many years ! Then you also have a piece of equipment that has many operating parts that have to all function for them to work ! Far more things to fail and have costly repairs !

So ---in my opinion they arent worth it yet !

Bruce

[Dan]

Ive installed many !

I dont think the savings in fuel will cover the installation costs for many many years ! Then you also have a piece of equipment that has many operating parts that have to all function for them to work ! Far more things to fail and have costly repairs !

So ---in my opinion they arent worth it yet !

Bruce

I agree.

I only deal with the 12 volt propane RV versions mostly, and they're still new, and breaking down frequently. They also don't necesarily do what you need them to do, they have flow sensors that change the flame according to flow rate, which should work in theory, the slower the water flows the less heat you want to get a consisten temperature, but in reality, this is causing havoc when you try to mix hot and cold water to get warm, the cold always overwhelms the hot because of the non restricted cold water flow

I'm betting that all doesnt make sense to someone who's never fought with it first hand :D

Get a conventional water heater this time, and when it rusts out in five or seven years, hopefully the technology has caught up and instant water heaters will be reliable.

[Road Dog]

A tankless burner uses much more gas and requires a larger flue and it can't be shared with your furnace/boiler. Plus you might need a larger gas line from the meter. So a retro can get pricey.

[mabb]

I have one at my cabin up North. It uses far less propane than a tank-type ever would. I installed it myself (but then, I do know what I'm doing; not so easy for amateurs). There is no trouble with gas pressure nor flue size. It has auto-ignition - no pilot light nor electric hook-up required.
The trouble is: $1,200 to buy it, and it does have more parts which means more potential for repair.
They make sense in some applications, but not in general use. The electric ones are worthless (electricity is not a good way to heat anything).

Mine's a Bosch, BTW.

[Enigma]

I had a gas fitter friend install a "Rinnai" continuum series tankless heater a couple of years ago when my normal type gas fired tank was failing.

It was a little bit on the pricey side, but I just despise the idea of constantly heating water that I'm not using, and the space savings was huge.

The only downside, and a very small one at that, is the water is not instantly hot like it is from a tank, a few seconds at most, depending on the pipe run length. But 4 minutes!...that must be some old tenchnology.

[Enigma]

A tankless burner uses much more gas and requires a larger flue and it can't be shared with your furnace/boiler. Plus you might need a larger gas line from the meter. So a retro can get pricey.



Umm..it uses LESS gas. It can be shared with a boiler, but is not recommended. You do not need larger gas lines.

[DennisAJC]

havnt used one here, but back in Japan my wifes familly has one. only turns it on when they need hot water (its gas and utilities are hella high there) the only problem with it is it does smell a fair amount when you have the window nearest to it open. It takes about 4 mins to have hot water and can pour a bath and have multiple showers while not worring about still having hot water. I am not sure if the ones here are the same or much different, but I am planning on getting one


My in-laws in Japan have it also. 10 years and no problems with it so far.



Last year I bought that system (Electric) in Japan and had it shipped here for my house. I had it installed.


It cost us a bundle and we have endless hot water. Why did we do this? Our original hot water tank ran gas and so did our fireplaces, heaters and cooking range.

Over a year ago we had a dispute with the cawk suckers at B.C. Gas. They disconnected us and refuse to turn it back on until we put down a hefty deposit. We had no choice but to give in but I told the supervisor that I'll get the last laugh. The BC Gas super was quite a prick and laughed me off. A month after installing the tankless system,( Also converted to baseboard electric heaters, electric appliances and disconnected the gas fireplaces. We had no problems with BC Hydro and they've been always understanding.) I called to tell that same supervisor to close our account, return our deposit and GF himself. They sent a special investigator to see what we had done and to close off our gas main. I wouldn't let him into my house. Super calls me a few days later to say that our setup was not up to code and he would inform the City Of Burnaby to (His words) inspect our dangerous setup. Nobody showed up.

Long story short, My last words to that supervisor was, "F**k you and BC Gas."


This system probably won't pay for itself until 10 years later, but the satisfaction to stick it to those pricks and have the last laugh was worth every penny. Also, approx. 20% of our house(And power out emergency system) is run by a solar power system thanks to Canadian Tire our electrician.

I just hope I don't get into a dispute with BC Hydro. :D


Electric vs Gas? The electric systems are way cheaper and electric costs are generally stable compared to the unstability of the fluctuating fuel market. And gas systems require a more complex installation and need more servicing in the long run.


P.S. The systems for sale here I found are a few years behind in technology in comparison to the Japanese models.


Sorry for the rant. :D

[Road Dog]

Umm..it uses LESS gas. It can be shared with a boiler, but is not recommended. You do not need larger gas lines.Or not -- the burner on a regular hot water tank is about 30,000 BTU and a tankless burner is about 100,000 BTU. I'm sure it uses less gas annually but when it running it uses a lot more. The gas line in the house is sized according to the total demand when the house was built. So it might be big enough or it might not.

When I looked into it the tankless system required a dedicated flue (BC building code).

[Enigma]

Or not -- the burner on a regular hot water tank is about 30,000 BTU and a tankless burner is about 100,000 BTU. I'm sure it uses less gas annually but when it running it uses a lot more. The gas line in the house is sized according to the total demand when the house was built. So it might be big enough or it might not.

When I looked into it the tankless system required a dedicated flue (BC building code).


Okay I get 'ya with the BTU thing, makes sense. But it uses a lot less gas annually. The projected payback time on ours was 7 years. And yes it requires its own flue, but ours was located on an exterior wall and we could vent it straight out the wall as long as it wasn't within a certain range of any open windows, which it wasnt.


Web link for Rinnai if anyone's interested in one:

http://www.foreverhotwater.com/

[crazyguy]

why cant they use the same flue?

[jeeper]

why cant they use the same flue?



They use a two layer flue -Exhaust gasses out the center and the combustion air in the outer layer !

Your old b-vent wont have that capability !



They are incredible units ! I have used them in many different applications even to a combined radiant heat /domestic hot water application !


It still goes back for me to the length of time required to recoup your investment ,and you probably wont get their as their life span isnt signifigantly longer if any over the old hot water tanks !


Bruce

[sdillen]

I had a Rinnai unit installed in late August and so far I'm quite happy with it. As Jeff mentioned, it does take a bit longer to get hot water at the tap -- my longest run (kitchen) is 40' from the heater and it takes about 40 seconds from stone cold to full hot. The bathroom and tub take about 15-20 seconds. I think mine has a 200,000 BTU input rating, but we were able to supply it with 1" line without an upgrade elsewhere. This was a concern to me -- but according to the company who installed, there was an option of increasing the house line pressure (which Terasen will do for free I'm told) in order to avoid any pipe upgrades.

The heater was a bit pricey, but so far so good. I do like the remote temperature control panel -- I can set the temperature from 98-140 degrees. 98 is nice for an outside tap for washing the dog.

Mine is an external mount -- in that it is recessed between studs on an exterior wall. On the up side, I reclaimed floor space where my tank used to be -- giving me some room to store more crap (er....stuff).

[edit] I can't tell about gas savings yet....and probably won't be able to because I replaced my furnace and windows at the same time.

[brian468]

the house I rent in denver has one and I love it, can turn it off when i`m gone and 5 minutes after i`m home and turn it on I have hot water.

save about 40$ a month over electric baseboard too which is pretty cool considering i`m gone half the month.

[wascobi]

I'm going electric if I can. its not feasable to run a gas unit in my townhouse. the biggest problem is upgrading my service. I only have a 100 amp panel thats full, and the units I'm looking at require either a single 100 amp breaker, or two 60 amp breakers. bigger panel means larger supply cable from the meter room and a heavier meter base. b c hydro might be coming out with financial incentives in the new year I hear, for installing tankless heaters. but what pisses me off is revy wants $1299 cdn to special order a unit I can buy online for $599 us.

[Enigma]

I forgot to mention the remote units like Steve said, very handy. You can set one up one in a bathroom the kids use and program the temperature so they don't scald themselves, very handy.

[sdillen]

I forgot to mention the remote units like Steve said, very handy. You can set one up one in a bathroom the kids use and program the temperature so they don't scald themselves, very handy.

Now, the salesman described the BEST feature of the remote control. When you think your teenage kid has been in the shower for too long and you've called out "Are you getting out yet?" about the sixth time with the same >lack of< response. You hit the remote "off" button and call out "Are you getting out NOW??????"

[Enigma]

Now, the salesman described the BEST feature of the remote control. When you think your teenage kid has been in the shower for too long and you've called out "Are you getting out yet?" about the sixth time with the same >lack of< response. You hit the remote "off" button and call out "Are you getting out NOW??????"

The joys of endless hotwater, I love my 30 (plus) minutes in the am.