why go jeep? So overdone! [Archive]

metallicajunky

November 23rd, 2002, 02:34 am

Im not one of those Jeep bashers or anything, I think they make an awesome trail rig and all, but why does EVERYONE have to go jeep? Its so overdone now! I picked up a 4x4 magazine today at work, and I found maybe 2 or 3 trucks that weren't jeep, the rest is page after page after page...you get it? It just gets a little boring!

Yeah theres tons of parts for em, yeah they're cheap to build up, yeah they look rugged...sometimes. But I mean...I guess Im the kinda guy that needs origionality...how can you be origional if everyone else and their dog own the exact make and model of your truck?

For all you guys that own a jeep, do something to it that no one else would do! Be different...better yet, buy a different truck! lol. this is just my 2 cents, and Im really one to talk(I own a damn ford), But just a good argument starter:D

give me a post and tell me what you think...

copeland

November 23rd, 2002, 09:42 am

Get off the soapbox you crazy fool....:redneck

jo-jo

November 23rd, 2002, 09:59 am

I do something different with mine, I buy 'em and drive 'em. When they die, I buy another one and drive it. Cheaper than spending $20,000 and 20,000 hours working on 'em.

Just a theory, but Americans are overly patriotic at times (if you haven't noticed), and JEEP is a symbol to them (conciously or not) with a lot of history.

American wheelers + American magazines = JEEP. (not bashing Americans...and generalizing like hell)

Personally I'm attracted to the utilitarianism (word?) of the truck.

If Ford had made an 83" wheelbase truck, with removable top and doors, a torquey 4 or 6 banger, that weighed in at around 3000lbs, and looked half as cool as a CJ5...and you could pick up old rusty ones for under $2000 and wheel 'em right after you bought it (stock or not)...I'd be all over it. :clown

Wes Rempel

November 23rd, 2002, 10:36 am

Why are Jeeps over done? not really. Just look at the competition built in the last decade. How many solid axle SWB or downsize vehicles have been built and sold for a reasonable price?

How many different downsize solid axle vehicles have not rusted out? Jeeps are the only thing left. There is no real brand war or preference, except for a preference not to be fighting rust.

My list of solid axle rust aways that I would consider wheeling if still available for a decent price in decent shape would be the EB, Scout, and Cruiser.

Rust has claimed them all, so I do the Jeep thing.

Full size is a different story: Ford F-350.
Wes

Chris S

November 23rd, 2002, 10:59 am

Ditto to what Wes said. It's not a fanatical devotion to jeeps, it's simply that for a newer vehicle there are no other options that provide similar performance for the $$$.

Until the Rubicon TJ came out I would have said that the 85 Toyota and early 70s Broncos are both better 4x4s than Jeeps, but solid ones are getting very hard to find.

Goof

November 23rd, 2002, 12:02 pm

*cough* Suzuki is better *cough*

They do have a point. They last long, there are lots of them, they are cheap, and they do well off-road. Suzuki's do have a lot of the same points, but they are a lot less popular.

Honestly, most people (even non-offroaders) think Jeeps make you cool. Ever since I bough my Sami, I've been getting a lot of "Hey, cool Jeep!" comments at school (IT'S NOT A GAWD DAMN JEEP).

ChrisL

November 23rd, 2002, 12:27 pm

Originally posted by metallicajunky
Im not one of those Jeep bashers or anything, I think they make an awesome trail rig and all, but why does EVERYONE have to go jeep? Its so overdone now! I picked up a 4x4 magazine today at work, and I found maybe 2 or 3 trucks that weren't jeep, the rest is page after page after page...you get it? It just gets a little boring!

Yeah theres tons of parts for em, yeah they're cheap to build up, yeah they look rugged...sometimes. But I mean...I guess Im the kinda guy that needs origionality...how can you be origional if everyone else and their dog own the exact make and model of your truck?

For all you guys that own a jeep, do something to it that no one else would do! Be different...better yet, buy a different truck! lol. this is just my 2 cents, and Im really one to talk(I own a damn ford), But just a good argument starter:D

give me a post and tell me what you think...

When our family used to drag race we heard the same thing about Chevys. I think that I lot of it has to do with availability and prices of parts. In the drag racing world small and big block chevrolet's are the easiest/cheapest to build up for that reason so maybe the same thing holds for jeeps...

I have a jeep but also bought a different truck recently (the Hummer :-) which is pretty much the opposite of the Jeep.

Although I love my jeep it is nice to see other kinds of trucks too.

my $0.02

G.J.T.J

November 23rd, 2002, 01:23 pm

I basically agree with everything Wes said, but I see your point on originality. I have a TJ on 33's, and so do a lot of other people, but when I see a Pathfinder with a SAS on 33's I can barely keep my eyes on the road (blondes have that same effect on me), or a Trooper for that matter. After wheeling my Jeep on the same trails I had trouble with in my IFS Pathfinder, (and coming accross parts a hell of a lot easier), there was not much of a reason for me not to buy a Jeep.

NOYFB

November 23rd, 2002, 02:10 pm

I used to be in the same boat as you, I had an '84 3/4 ton Chevy, I lifted it bought a set of 35" tires did some engine mods, and loved to wheel it. At that time, 1996-8. I used to buy all the magazines, they too were all geared to jeeps. I hated that.

A few years later a buddy of mine bought an '86 CJ7 for his wife to drive to work. I went for 1 ride in it on a hot ontario summer day with no doors and it was decided. I would be entering the jeep realm as well. and not only was the no doors expierience the best I'd ever had, (vehicle related) Those things wheeled pretty good too.

A few years later I bought my own CJ7 ripped the doors off and started loving it. Ever since I've been turning it back into a better version of my old chevy.

In order to have a capable p/u you would neet to get a short box for the size than 1 ton running gear and a set of 44" boggers, the boggers alone cost just as much as a set of 35" boggers and an old jeep combined.

Someday you too will see the light and realize that driving with no doors is worth not being unique.

oh yeah and there are probably 50 times the number of people driving 4x4 fullsize pickups than there are diving any model of jeep. Jeep is pretty unique considering that.

LocashMikey

November 23rd, 2002, 02:15 pm

Dude! jeeps aren't over done It's just that they aren't original they all look the same. Alot of the jeeps that I see around have no real personality. You have to make your 4x4 yours and not look like all the rest or do what eveyone else is doing.

Just my $.02:soso

agent scully

November 23rd, 2002, 02:36 pm

Why Jeeps?

lars

November 23rd, 2002, 07:33 pm

Originally posted by metallicajunky
Yeah theres tons of parts for em, yeah they're cheap to build up, yeah they look rugged...sometimes. But I mean...I guess Im the kinda guy that needs origionality...how can you be origional if everyone else and their dog own the exact make and model of your truck?
Your argument for building something else lost me right there. I didn't buy my Jeep to be original. I bought it because I wanted a rust-free, fuel-injected, convertible 4x4 with solid front/rear axles. All mods I did to it were with an eye toward function, not image or style.

If you want to be original, build a Subaru Brat or a Lada Niva. :D

...lars

metallicajunky

November 23rd, 2002, 07:51 pm

wow...your right. Jeeps dont rust to the ground...usually. They are one of the only vehicles that are still produced with a solid axle, and yeah some do look pretty bad-ass:cool: . But yeah you gotta give your truck an identity! I guess Im partly into the wheeling thing for the looks. I want a truck that turns heads, because no one's ever seen anything like it. I find that hard with a jeep, becasue it seems they're all the same.

guess thats where I differ...Im looking for something rare, or something that isn't done very often. My truck might look cool yeah, but a Jeep will probably blaze by me on the trail....

oh yeah one more thing. The sammy didnt have the same traits as the jeep! Sort wheel base, removable doors, solid axle...thats about it! they have no motor in them!lol... Power is important!!!

LocashMikey

November 23rd, 2002, 11:19 pm

It doesn't have to be a road Queen but your 4x4 should stand out from the rest. It should screem you thats all. When you drive down the road everyone should be able to say hey there went Tom Dick Harry. But most of the jeeps I see around (not all) just don't have personality.

lars

November 24th, 2002, 12:29 am

Originally posted by LocashMikey
It doesn't have to be a road Queen but your 4x4 should stand out from the rest. It should screem you thats all. When you drive down the road everyone should be able to say hey there went Tom Dick Harry. But most of the jeeps I see around (not all) just don't have personality.

I think you should scream you. Build your vehicle to suit it's intended purpose. At least that way, it'll make it clear what you truly like to do with your vehicle. If you make it obvious that you are trying to make it "scream you," it just makes it clear that you have a huge ego. :p

I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of pride of ownership. I just don't see the importance in using my vehicle to gain attention. I don't mean to put down anyone who thinks differently, though. I'm just sticking up for those of us with the less-flashy 4x4s. :lame

...lars

LocashMikey

November 24th, 2002, 12:52 am

Originally posted by lars

I think you should scream you. Build your vehicle to suit it's intended purpose. At least that way, it'll make it clear what you truly like to do with your vehicle. If you make it obvious that you are trying to make it "scream you," it just makes it clear that you have a huge ego. :p

I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of pride of ownership. I just don't see the important in using my vehicle to gain attention.

...lars
I guess it the car club personality in me that thinks it should screem you. Its just fun when someone says to you that your ride is sweet. It doesn't have to be the best looking thing out there but have something different. I'm of the thought that if its stock looking its just another to and from car. I like to see things out there that are of the mind " why the f would you do that to that thing". I guess thats why I'm doing up a tracker. If that makes me sound like I have an ego well then I guess I do.

Or maybe I just need some :help to see the way.

lars

November 24th, 2002, 01:43 am

Originally posted by LocashMikey

I guess it the car club personality in me that thinks it should screem you. Its just fun when someone says to you that your ride is sweet. It doesn't have to be the best looking thing out there but have something different. I'm of the thought that if its stock looking its just another to and from car. I like to see things out there that are of the mind " why the f would you do that to that thing".
I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I like the sleeper rigs that look plain but shock people with their performance on the trail.

Or maybe I just need some :help to see the way.
Not at all. I'm not trying to tell you that your opinion is wrong.

...lars

Shaggy

November 24th, 2002, 12:33 pm

For me it was a no brainer, I wanted a something new that I could sleep in, and looked at the 4-Runner and the ZJ. The 4-Runner had a V6 and IFS, the ZJ had a 5.2 or 5.9 V8 and SFA. I did like the looks of the 4-runner better, but one drive of a 5.9 and it was all over:D

Still havn't seen anything I'd rather have.

Jon

Some Guy

November 26th, 2002, 12:21 am

dont the new 4runners have sfa again? and avalible in a v8?

Wes Rempel

November 26th, 2002, 09:32 am

Not likely.

MudKick

November 26th, 2002, 09:35 am

Originally posted by Some Guy
dont the new 4runners have sfa again? and avalible in a v8?
Wake up dude! This dream is gonna get your sheet wet.
Yes, V8, but NO sfa.
(Homer voice)....MMMMMM SFA....

Hey I like originality and function at the same time.

My truck is rather new, not much of a rust problem, 88.5 inch wheel base, economical, under 3000 pounds, Dana 44's and it costed me less then any jeep would with comparable mods. It's not a jeep.
I also ask myself why so many people go jeep. I don't judge them, but I don't understand them either. I guess "It's a jeep thing..."
The bottom line is a cost. To make a jeep really work you'll need to swap axles. If you go this route, you might as well go SAS on almost anything you like. You'd be surprised with the wide-open alternatives and options... I agree, I think our sport would benefit immensely if more people were thinking outside the box. (get it? box- jeep. Ha ha, I thought it was funny)

lars

November 26th, 2002, 10:24 am

Originally posted by MudKick
The bottom line is a cost. To make a jeep really work you'll need to swap axles. If you go this route, you might as well go SAS on almost anything you like.
I don't agree. With respect to YJs, the D30 front axle isn't the problem...CJ's have used a variant of them for decades. No, the real problem is the D35 rear axle but that is VERY easily swapped out in favour of the D44 which _some_ Chrysler Jeeps came with, or the Ford Explorer 8.8.

Swapping the rear...or even the front, for that matter, is far easier than doing a solid axle conversion on an IFS vehicle. Admittedly, if you include Jeep TJs in this discussion, axle swapping becomes more difficult because of the axle bracketry required for the coil suspension but OTOH, you can buy TJs with D44 rears anyway.

Regarding suspension lifts over 2.5", Toyota solid axle trucks and solid axle Zuks are cheaper to lift because a YJ or TJ would need a tailshaft eliminator kit.

...lars

MudKick

November 26th, 2002, 10:57 am

Lars,
I must yet again bring cost to the equation. Like any number, cost is relative.
I compared a Suzuki Sidekick to a Jeep.
Say 92 sidekick can be had for 3000-4000 range in a decent shape. Add the mods I just mentioned earlier, that actually include diff gears and lockers, 33 inch tires and you are looking a 10000-11000 vehicle.
Take a 92 jeep with an average cost of 7000-8500 and you have much more limited mods budget to stay in say $10000 range. If you look at later model years the donor vehicle price differential gets even more exaggerated.
In addition, the originality of the vehicle issue is priceless to some. And you must admit jeeps aren’t that unique. To me the YJ reliability is also a disadvantage: Jeep, as opposed to import.

Ultimately, it all depends on a personal preference. I will not tell anyone they made a bad choice getting a Jeep. I can see the reasoning behind all the points you made. This is why there is more then just one automaker and one model. People like different things. This issue is not any different.

I will still strongly support my statement that free thinking always drove the progress. I think all the SAS swap guys that are giving a Jeep a run for its money are doing us all a favour, by pushing the envelope and kudos to them. They benefit themselves and the jeep guys as well. We all win. I would think as an owner of this particular board you would have to agree.

Paul

November 26th, 2002, 11:27 am

Why are people so concerned about what kind of vehicle others choose to drive? As long as they are happy and get where they want to go it shouldn't matter to anyone else what the other guy uses.

lars

November 26th, 2002, 11:39 am

Originally posted by MudKick
Lars,
I must yet again bring cost to the equation. Like any number, cost is relative.
I compared a Suzuki Sidekick to a Jeep.
Say 92 sidekick can be had for 3000-4000 range in a decent shape. Add the mods I just mentioned earlier, that actually include diff gears and lockers, 33 inch tires and you are looking a 10000-11000 vehicle.
Take a 92 jeep with an average cost of 7000-8500 and you have much more limited mods budget to stay in say $10000 range. If you look at later model years the donor vehicle price differential gets even more exaggerated.

I wasn't thinking in comparison only to Suzuki Sidekicks but your point is valid.

In addition, the originality of the vehicle issue is priceless to some. And you must admit jeeps aren’t that unique.
I agree.

To me the YJ reliability is also a disadvantage: Jeep, as opposed to import.
Disagree. I've had two Toyota 4x4s and two Jeeps and haven't found one to be superior to the other with respect to reliability.

Ultimately, it all depends on a personal preference. I will not tell anyone they made a bad choice getting a Jeep. I can see the reasoning behind all the points you made. This is why there is more then just one automaker and one model. People like different things. This issue is not any different.
I agree. I was mainly replying to your point about replacing Jeep axles.

I will still strongly support my statement that free thinking always drove the progress. I think all the SAS swap guys that are giving a Jeep a run for its money are doing us all a favour, by pushing the envelope and kudos to them. They benefit themselves and the jeep guys as well. We all win. I would think as an owner of this particular board you would have to agree.
Of course, and I didn't know I was giving an impression that I might disagree. I know I've been supporting Jeep in this thread but that doesn't mean I'm against other brands. I'm just tired of seeing anti-Jeep stuff which is based more on emotion than fact. I'm not saying that you or people on this thread are guilty of this. I mention it only to explain why I am participating in this thread; I'm making sure that the facts are straight about Jeeps. I am certainly aware of their shortcomings and don't mind admitting them.

I've been lucky enough to 'wheel in groups with a variety of vehicles from stock to heavily modified. Only a few very custom vehicles have stood out as being clearly superior to all others. Below those few, all the 4x4s I've seen have pros and cons with none having the net advantage. From a price perspective, though, I think the Suzukis have the advantage and I've said this many times in the past.

...lars

McJeep

November 26th, 2002, 12:02 pm

My version of the perfect 4x4

Dependable - that's why I've built the latest one using the same pieces and methods as many others. The bits and pieces are proven effective and experimentation takes $ and time I can't afford.

Stealthy - Having a rip snorting 4x won't do you any good at all if you can't drive past the police without getting pulled over and being given an inspection notice.

Utilitarian - I end up towing trailers quite often. I've seen a lot of Suzukis I really like and would love the mileage they get but there's no way they could pull what I pull with my jeep. 'Not saying the jeep is the best tow rig avail (that's for sure) but it is enough to do what I need done.

Fun - Sorry man but aside from some of the dusty logging road transits to the trailhead, there is nothing I enjoy more (well almost nuthin) than wheeling in an open vehicle in the summer. Yes I put up with the cold and wet in the winter, but the summer makes it all worth while.

Individualism - I've built it to go where "I" want to go, with who "I" want to wheel with, when "I" want to wheel. Sounds pretty individual to me ;)

I like 'em 'cause I like 'em, not because a bunch of mall cruising pavement queens are in upscale driveways, but because they are a good rig for me and what I do. I will however admit that ya gotta love them to put up with some of their quirks but how many motorcyclists have you met that would never ride a softail? Everyone's got their preferences:D

Rob

MudKick

November 26th, 2002, 12:11 pm

Originally posted by lars

I know I've been supporting Jeep in this thread but that doesn't mean I'm against other brands. I'm just tired of seeing anti-Jeep stuff which is based more on emotion than fact. I'm not saying that you or people on this thread are guilty of this. I mention it only to explain why I am participating in this thread; I'm making sure that the facts are straight about Jeeps. I am certainly aware of their shortcomings and don't mind admitting them.

...lars I hear ya, I Don’t like when people make statements based on overheard stereotypes, and without substantiated facts or their own experiences. It dilutes everyone’s arguments and becomes a stupid brand bash…
I just wanted to add that my Suzuki argument is only driven by my own reason and supported by my own experience. However it would not be the only alternative. I am a man of many hobbies, but my budget is pretty average, so the biggest bang for the buck was my main concern in my project.
Had I another 6-8 grand to spend, it could have been an entirely different story.
One of my favorite semi obtainable dreams would be a 95-ish 4.3 vortec 2door Jimmy on a Ford set of axles. Think about it. All the power, comfort, durability and compact size in one tidy package. Again my choice is not a jeep here, but it is domestic.
A Rode also sounds like a tasty prospect, then there are the Suzuki Vitaras.
Again, once you free yourself from the “solid axle is a must” way of thinking there are choices that are quite appealing for different budgets.

Shhh, don’t tell anyone, but I really like this new Rubicon.

agent scully

November 26th, 2002, 01:26 pm

Mudkick, I agree with you on the budget reason behind choosing a project truck to bulid up as your 4x4 hobby. I'd just like to add that alot of us did not buy our trucks with the intention of building it as a hobby. For me, I wanted a convertable and something fun to drive in the summer, so I chose the Jeep. Then it's the jeep that introduced me to this whole 4x4 sport and since then I started building it and it became a hobby/addiction. I admire alot of other 4x4s out there and if I had a choice I'd own one of each of them, but in reality I already have a Jeep that's paid off and now I can spend more money on building it. That's my reason to go Jeep.

Kazuki

November 26th, 2002, 01:49 pm

I was gonna buy a Jeep as my second vehicle.... after pricing them out, I bought a Sidekick. It does everything I wanted from the Jeep, for less than half the price. I still like Jeeps, but if I was going to build a bush rig, I'd build up a Toy! ;)

topless7

November 28th, 2002, 01:40 pm

I will admit it, I own a Jeep, actually we have two in the family. I don't find all Jeeps the same, except if they are bone stock, I usually look and can find something interesting and unique about each vehicle. Everyone has different ideas about what they think is going to work better and different ways of doing things.

Jeeps turn my head it doesn't matter if it's on 33's or 42's I love them, but I also give myself whiplash when any other brand of 4x4 goes by. I appreciate the differences and strong points of all different vehicles. I just decided that a Jeep would suit my needs at this time. If things change then you never know I might change my mind and go with something different. Right now I find that the availablitity of parts for Jeeps, not necessarily Jeep parts, and the many different things that you can do with them is what I want and need right now.

I agree that everything is all a matter of personal choice and that everything would be boring if everyone drove the same thing. Take a look around, underneath they are not all the same. They are unique just like the people who drive them and work on them. All you have to do is take a look at the diversity of the people and their vehicles on this board. No one thing is better than any other, they are only better for your personal needs.

Well that's my .02:D

MANCINATOR

November 30th, 2002, 02:59 am

I couldnt tell you the difference between a cj, tj, wj, xj, bj....oh wait, i know what that last one is hahaha...all i know is the zj is the grand cherokee...point is, unless you knwo yoru jeeps, every jeep does look the same...very little phyisical change in appearance since the 70s...well i guess since they were made back in the wwII days...i dont know anyhtign about jeeps, but i do like the idea of driving with no doors and no top...thats why i want an LC lol
if you guys REALLY wanna be unique, try messing with isuzus...with 1/10th the aftermarket that anyhtign else out there has, its a real challenge....but worth it when you do it right.
and lastly it doenst matter what you drive, so long as you like it and it serves you well....not like the yuppys that drive excursions to the office everday. :confused2

supatroopa

November 30th, 2002, 11:01 am

if you guys REALLY wanna be unique, try messing with isuzus...
00
HA! You said it Joe:D No canadian aftermarket, so its all fab yourself(except the toy shackles that fit) So lets see, $4000 for a 90 Zu, 4 doors, super comfy interior, lotso room inside, the same wheelbase as a regular cab shortbox Toy, and a FS Waggy axle fits right under the front(= cheap SAS!) Oh yeah and they come stock with 4.55 gears and a posi rear. I love XJ's, but they dont have as much interior room, and drink twice the gas of my 4 banger Zu, and yes it tows, I have an 18' boat w/90hp merc(big 'n' heavy) that I tow with no probs.

muddhunter

November 30th, 2002, 02:43 pm

Originally posted by MANCINATOR
....and lastly it doenst matter what you drive, so long as you like it and it serves you well....not like the yuppys that drive excursions to the office everday. :confused2

Kind of a conflicting statement wouldn't you say??

JeepinGPW

November 30th, 2002, 04:42 pm

One thing I haven't seen on this site are real jeeps. These being flat fenders that have crappy brakes & steering, are under powered, have a swing out-fold down windsheild, no heater or top, & made to fit a 5' 8" driver.:laugh

agent scully

December 1st, 2002, 02:03 am

Originally posted by JeepinGPW
One thing I haven't seen on this site are real jeeps. These being flat fenders that have crappy brakes & steering, are under powered, have a swing out-fold down windsheild, no heater or top, & made to fit a 5' 8" driver.:laugh

How does that make it a real Jeep? Last time I checked, my both my Jeeps have Jeep logos on them and I'll like to think that I paid good money for 2 real Jeeps and not some cheap Taiwan Knock offs.:angry

December 1st, 2002, 04:59 am

I personally believe this is truly a non issue. I'm sure most if not all of the guy's and girls I wheel with would say the same. I just can't see how this even enters somepeoples thinking. I personally transform my 4x4's to best suit it's desired task whether it is rockcrawling, mud bogging or hauling my camper around. If this means I swap axles, go spring over, and add bigger tires and a winch so be it. You would be lying if you said that you would not stray from your ground breaking mods to copy some mod that you saw on someone else's truck. This is also the reason why if you do something original it wont stay that way long. Someone else will see it eventually and if it works it will soon be copied. Welcome to the real world, this is how it works.

I agree with lars, I also prefer the sleeper rigs. Better yet sleeper rigs that are driven by someone who speaks with their driving rather than words.

However this doesn't mean I don't like my Jeep to look half decent. This has more to do with how anal I am rather than how vain I am. The guys at the body shop send me Christmas cards and thank you notes for continually letting them repaint my Jeep one part at a time. I also have guys wanting the fluids I drain out of my Jeep that they say I do far to often. Some may think this is a waste of money. After all I am just going to get more damage to the body eventually and my oil will still work several times longer than I use it for. I say I am the owner of a Jeep that gets the snot kicked out of it on a regular basis but doesn't look or run like it does.

In my book a 4x4 that is covered from one end to the other with damage is just as much a poser as the typical "Pavement Princess". Some people must think it makes them look extreme or hardcore. They look to me like they don't know how to drive or maybe they just haven't learned from their mistakes. Don't think I am talking about not having damage at all, lets face it if damage doesn't happen once in a while your not challenging yourself enough. I mean the trucks that are covered from one end to another. If you go by their trailer park on Sunday you would probably find them using the last street sign they stole to beat some character into their piece of s**t truck. I have seen alot of obstacles that anyone could pass and take damage but it always requires the most skill to make it clean.

Ultimately I think what you see in any given 4x4 is reflected by what you personally like and I think the brand is often at the top of the list. I don't often see this cookie cutter modified Jeep some of you speak of mainly because I can recognize all the things that are different between it and the next one. I am a Jeep guy. I'm sure Suzuki and Toyota guys that know there stuff would say the same. When I see a Toyota lifted up with big tires all I see is yet another lifted up Toyota that looks like the last one I saw. Same with Suzuki's. I honestly could care less what kind of mods they have done so that is all I see. I tend to judge a 4x4 by how well it performs in front of me on the trail. I will give credit where credit is due. I have meet and wheeled with people in the past that have I have found out have a hate on for Jeeps and ultimately feel they have something to prove on the trail, 9 times out of 10 they are driving a Toyota or Suzuki. The whole "It's not a Jeep it's a Landcruser!" or "Suzuki!" is really quite sad and tells me something about someone everytime I hear it mentioned here.:rolleyes:

Until the Rubicon TJ came out I would have said that the 85 Toyota and early 70s Broncos are both better 4x4s than Jeeps,
I have owned both an 85 Toyota and early 70s Bronco and I would disagree. On paper and on the trail are two different things.
Individualism - I've built it to go where "I" want to go, with who "I" want to wheel with, when "I" want to wheel. Sounds pretty individual to me
Amen brother.
One thing I haven't seen on this site are real jeeps. These being flat fenders that have crappy brakes & steering, are under powered, have a swing out-fold down windsheild, no heater or top, & made to fit a 5' 8" driver.
Ya, if you think your rolling hook your knees under the steering wheel that should hold you in at least until the windshield folds and pinches you into the seat.:redneck

JeepinGPW

December 1st, 2002, 09:41 am

:laugh :laugh :laugh I thought my reply would ruffle a few feathers... Actually, my right knee rests on the shift stick & my left knee out the side so I should probably wear a can when I drive it:p

witelitning

December 3rd, 2002, 07:13 pm

so if my truck should scream me. Damn itll be big and scary. It wont play by the rules. And itll do things the hard way.

Oh and yes its a jeep, but it a jeep commando. it looks like a scout / early bronco. ANd one guy insited at work i had a vw thing.

If i had the money id probly wouldve replaced my dakota. But then i was looking into making it solid axeled as well. I guess i also do things the hard way

doby/RD

December 3rd, 2002, 10:53 pm

GO FURTHER!! TOO FAR!!
isuzu trooper. its origional and capable.

melloyello83

December 4th, 2002, 03:05 pm

I've been lucky enough to 'wheel in groups with a variety of vehicles from stock to heavily modified. Only a few very custom vehicles have stood out as being clearly superior to all others. Below those few, all the 4x4s I've seen have pros and cons with none having the net advantage. From a price perspective, though, I think the Suzukis have the advantage and I've said this many times in the past. (originally quoted by Lars)

Lars I totally agree with you!! I rode shotgun a couple of weeks ago in a 500hp big block, 37" Boggered, twin lockered Chev beast.(Brian I can't seem to stop giggling!!) This thing was incredible, but when it came to climbing a steep, slippery hill littered with boulders, the tricked out Jeep that was with us showed everyone...big horsepower and size is not the end all, be all of a TRUE 4X4, it defintely helps in mud and many other situations, but sometimes, you can't beat a lite crawler. We should respect all aspects of our sport; mudding, rockcrawling, etc. and respect the fact that everyone enjoys different activities surrounding it, but very few rigs have what it takes to conquer all, unless you've got a tank!!!!!!!!!!:D

RoR-Solo

December 5th, 2002, 08:27 pm

Real Jeeps are built...not bought, I'm sure we;ve heard it all before.

It doesn't really matter what name is on the front of the vehicle you have chosen for wheelin, rather that you enjoy it, love working on it, don't mind breaking it, etc...

My Jeep is original...I can definately say that no one has one just like mine, maybe a few similar parts but that's it.

The other thing is that beside that frame & what's left of the body, there's not much left that's actually Jeep...it's more Ford than anything.

Dan

January 16th, 2003, 10:20 pm

I have a Jeep CHEROKEE. I dont find that everyone else has the same make and model, I find everyone else has an 82 CJ7 :D and not a Cherokee.

jeeponrock

January 17th, 2003, 06:30 pm

Originally posted by Dan
I have a Jeep CHEROKEE. I dont find that everyone else has the same make and model, I find everyone else has an 82 CJ7 :D and not a Cherokee.

Why Dan.. You've got your bait out and I do beleive you are trolling... :rolleyes:

Pussy

January 17th, 2003, 06:39 pm

Jeeps are for GIRLS!!!!

cough, cough, cough...

jeeponrock

January 17th, 2003, 06:41 pm

Originally posted by Pussy
Jeeps are for GIRLS!!!!

cough, cough, cough...

This sounds great coming from someone named "Pussy". Kinda makes you wonder what Toys are for doesn't it. :laugh :laugh

ld50

January 18th, 2003, 12:33 am

I drive a Ford, but deep down I feel envious of Jeep owners, since their schlongs are so freakin` huge! :eek:

Seriously, I just wanted something I can take camping, and just throw an air mattress in the back of, I hate messin with tents.

Just an observation, but there are many times on the trail when I have seen more Toyotas than Jeeps, what`s with that? Do they hand them out for graduating High school nowadays?

:D

dooboy

January 18th, 2003, 01:40 am

Hey guys & girls: it's a Jeep thing that no one will understand until you own one, a jeep is primitive, noisy, slow.......and all the things people can complain about, but you know, there's a special feel every time when i drive my jeep, i also have a 02 f350 crewcab lariat & a Porsche 911 turbo, but i alway try to find excuses to drive the jeep,, bottomline is, fun for your buck, you can't beat a jeep.:cool:

MANCINATOR

January 18th, 2003, 03:08 am

so how does the 911 do offroad compared ot the jeep?:spam

Joe M

January 18th, 2003, 04:06 am

Originally posted by dooboy
Hey guys & girls: it's a Jeep thing that no one will understand until you own one, a jeep is primitive, noisy, slow.......and all the things people can complain about, but you know, there's a special feel every time when i drive my jeep, i also have a 02 f350 crewcab lariat & a Porsche 911 turbo, but i alway try to find excuses to drive the jeep,, bottomline is, fun for your buck, you can't beat a jeep.:cool:

Well said! I love my Jeep. Ya it's got bumpsteer and puny axles (for now) and weak ass brakes to boot, but theres something about the uncomfortable ride that makes me want to go for a looooooooong drive in it :)

JeepinGPW

January 18th, 2003, 01:09 pm

One thing that kills me is when some guy says Toyota's are the best. Then you find out its got a small block Chev, SM trans, NP transfer case, 14 bolt rear & a Dana 60 front end.:laugh :laugh

strong_like_tractor

January 18th, 2003, 01:40 pm

I drive a Truck-a-saurus... how does that fit in?

JP

Joe M

January 18th, 2003, 01:59 pm

Your truck doesn't need to fit in JP, it just crawls right over top of everything else :redneck

Let me know where you park so I can drive underneath and keep my truck protected from the elements.

Dan

January 19th, 2003, 01:18 am

Originally posted by jeeponrock

Why Dan.. You've got your bait out and I do beleive you are trolling... :rolleyes:

Well I was, but that Pussy guy has gone and outdone me :p

chillbilly

January 19th, 2003, 12:32 pm

I've done some long hard thinking about what the ultimate all round 4x4 should be and came to an opinion that it would have to be a jeep- styled type 4x4 to be able to move through all different terrain. It is possible to be a "jack of all terrains" but you'll have to be a master of none. If you eliminate the need for carrying a lot of people/gear and look for something strictly for off-road travel your left with a jeep styled vehicle or hummer styled if you add mine fields to the terrain list. A jeep styled vehicle moderatly modified (lockers a must) should be fine. I think that a person preparing to go off road should at the minimum get a vehicle and modify it to handle the terrain they want to move through; every thing over and above is all a matter of money,ego or shlong size. I like jeeps, but if I stuck a slightly modified jeep along side a slightly modified sami and I tried both on and off road I'd have to say that I'd pic the sami for the fun factor- its like driving one hell of a bad assed childrens toy.I have yet to take my doors and roof off but I imagine it will add to the fun. The only people that should be knocked are the ones that go out and spend 50- 60 grand on a full sized truck, lift it, get BIG tires, and all the other expensive mods, polish up their truck and their 2000
dollar chrome mags and all their other chrome accessories and stand around with their buddies and skanky money grubbers
admiring their extremely over-priced off road lights before they
DON'T go off road. Or maybe we shouldn't even knock them
because maybe they just don't know what they are doing or are
over compensating for something or maybe it has to do with a
lack of ability to perfom at something;) POOR GUYS if anything we should feel sorry for them:D

doby/RD

January 19th, 2003, 01:02 pm

yeah jeeps are decent and affordable to build BUT almost always when you see one lightly modified or even heavily modified there's always a wheel in the air. we all attempt to create wheel travel by doing modifications to the suspension but it seems no matter what you do with a jeep it's always got a wheel off the ground.no travel. no wonder they need lockers to be able to wheel.
im not bashing jeeps.... wait a minute.... yes i am...
i sure they are just fine

jeeponrock

January 19th, 2003, 01:50 pm

Originally posted by doby/RD
yeah jeeps are decent and affordable to build BUT almost always when you see one lightly modified or even heavily modified there's always a wheel in the air. we all attempt to create wheel travel by doing modifications to the suspension but it seems no matter what you do with a jeep it's always got a wheel off the ground.no travel. no wonder they need lockers to be able to wheel.
im not bashing jeeps.... wait a minute.... yes i am...
i sure they are just fine

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe I will show up at the SCAT ramp event. We'll compare RTI scores and then you can explain to me why "no matter what you do with a jeep it's always got a wheel off the ground.no travel. ".

I'm willing to bet a stock TJ will outflex a stock trooper too. :p

doby/RD

January 19th, 2003, 02:04 pm

im hoping to have my trooper at the ramp event. im hoping it will be done for it. as for stock with IFS ive ramped a 604 with it.im sure a stock TJ would as it is straight axle and (i believe) coils so it should be able to i would hope so anyways

as for the wheel thing, just an observation from mags. and vids

jeeponrock

January 19th, 2003, 02:15 pm

Originally posted by doby/RD
im hoping to have my trooper at the ramp event. im hoping it will be done for it. as for stock with IFS ive ramped a 604 with it.

So you spend a lot of time with a wheel in the air? :D

I ramp just under a thousand on the 30 degree ramp . My score on the 20 degree ramp is over twice what you've posted. Even when I ran a simple SOA setup I was ramping around 1150. I don't pick a tire very often.

as for the wheel thing, just an observation from mags. and vids

I think you need to go back an observe some more. Factor in wheel base, tire size and terrain and you'll find that trucks with a similar wheel base pick a tire in the same spot. It's got nothing to do with the type of truck. It's all about how they're built.

jeeponrock

January 19th, 2003, 02:43 pm

Originally posted by doby/RD
still not stock though

So? You said " lightly modified or even heavily modified there's always a wheel in the air. we all attempt to create wheel travel by doing modifications to the suspension but it seems no matter what you do with a jeep it's always got a wheel off the ground.no travel."

Have you given up on the lightly/heavily modified = no flex and gone to stock Jeeps don't flex now? What was your point again? :D :clown

Sorry man, not trying to pick on you I just like clearing up some misconceptions people have. Nice job on the SAS BTW.

doby/RD

January 19th, 2003, 02:59 pm

those are pretty impressive #'s good job on your rig.

still not stock though or IFS.

with IFS ya i have wheels in the air sometimes but that to be expected. but ive never broken anything just body damage and ive wheeled it lots and hard.almost always get thru the trail or obstical STOCK . its true when they say ' go farther '

Joe M

January 19th, 2003, 08:35 pm

Originally posted by doby/RD
with IFS ya i have wheels in the air sometimes but that to be expected

You're picking on Jeeps' ability to flex, but your trooper is IFS.

:rolleyes: :confused: :lame :violin

doby/RD

January 19th, 2003, 08:54 pm

no. just answering to-.

[i]Originally posted by jeeponarock

I'm willing to bet a stock TJ will outflex a stock trooper too. :p [/B]

doby/RD

January 19th, 2003, 09:09 pm

Originally posted by Baby Joe

You're picking on Jeeps' ability to flex, but your trooper is IFS.

:rolleyes: :confused: :lame :violin

ya but 600+ is pretty damb good for any 100% stock IFS.

MANCINATOR

January 19th, 2003, 11:20 pm

wouldnt it be better to compare cherokees and troopers?
jeep tjs and what not have a much shorter wheelbase and so kinda makes comparison hard....although if you wanted ot compare an isuzu amigo to a jeeper...that migth work as well. jsut a thouhgt...oh yeha ISUZU ROCKS

strong_like_tractor

January 20th, 2003, 10:11 am

I'll bet you my fullsize ramps just as well if not better then the trooper.

JP

If the ramp can handle it:p

AndrewH

January 20th, 2003, 12:25 pm

Originally posted by doby/RD
we all attempt to create wheel travel by doing modifications to the suspension but it seems no matter what you do with a jeep it's always got a wheel off the ground.no travel. no wonder they need lockers to be able to wheel.

have you ever driven a rig with lockers?????? the reason why we get wheels in the air (regardless of what vehicle it is) is because lockers = tires in the air. this is because of the traction that is achieved. i have a pic of me and a buddy (me driving my jeep and buddy driving a SAS'ed '90 4runner locker fr/r) going through the same obsticle with a tire nice and high in the air.

also in regards to your comment about seeing the jeeps in magazines always having a tire in the air it is because that is the sort of stuff people want to see. they want to see rigs being pushed to the limit.

i too used to ramp around 1250 with a very simple SOA but that has changed. i'll be lucky to go over a 1100 because of the lengthed wheelbase but does that mean i will have tires in the air more often????????

lars

January 20th, 2003, 12:52 pm

Andrew has explained it pretty well. Jeeps dominate the pics in 4x4 magazines simply because they're quite popular among the rock crawling crowd, and rock crawling is very "in" these days. As far as wheels in the air goes, those are those most exciting pics, and exciting pics sells magazines. Basically, it's not a good idea to base your ideas of a vehicle's performance based on the action shots in magazines.

A great example of this flawed thinking can be found in this somewhat recent story in The Onion (http://www.theonion.com), a satirical newspaper. I've included bits of it below (younger readers should leave the room):

CAMBRIDGE, MA—Announcing "a major advance in the age-old quest to unlock the secrets at the heart of human sexuality," researchers at Harvard's Center For The Graphic Depiction Of The Human Sexual Act confirmed Monday that, with the aid of experimental new high-speed photographic technology, they have successfully captured the elusive male orgasm on film.

-snip-

"Using a painstaking process of trial and error, hundreds of situations were attempted," he said. "We tried everything: pool-cleaners arriving to find bikini-clad nubiles in the backyard, unsuspecting pizza-delivery drivers finding themselves at sorority pajama parties—you name it. Virtually every permutation of sensory stimuli you could imagine was exhaustively explored."

But in the end, Leslie said, only one scenario proved both orgasm-inducing and feasible to record: the direct ejaculation of the male member onto a corresponding female partner's face, with the woman's head positioned only inches away.

"For some reason," Leslie said, "no other set of circumstances produced the desired effect. Oh, and the woman has to have high-heeled shoes on, too, although she's otherwise undressed. We don't know why that is, either."

...lars

doby/RD

January 20th, 2003, 01:20 pm

ok you all. i wasnt trying to push any buttons. i feel the same about other vehicles too. this thread happened to be about jeeps so i made a comment about jeeps. my origional point was only to say that you see some that are heavily modified but still dont have much for travel as one would expect to see. i never once said a jeep was incapable. as for wheeling to put on a show for others, IMO that shouldnt be why your wheelin. i wheel for the satisfaction of accomplishment.. i do and have always wheeled real hard and even beyond the limit of my ride and yes i have had wheels in the air, lots. i have spent 5 years with IFS and have done incredibly well with it in stock form on all the trails around the lowermainland. now i have done an axle conversion. not to look cool but because i want the wheel travel so i dont always have a wheel in the air. the whole idea of having travel is for traction. obviously four wheels on the ground is better than three. im hoping, as i dont know yet, that with my mods. i will have the travel i need for the wheeling i like to do.

as for the full size ford, of course it will maybe ramp better stock. its a straight axle. you guys keep trying to compare solid axles against stock IFS.

ramps are for testing and bragging rights only
a good ramp score doesnt mean it is capable on the trail. quality upgrades and a good driving skill is what makes a capable trail rig. anyone should know that.

good day to you