Which 110V Welder?

[stihl036]

Hey,

I am a novice welder and I need some advice. I would like to get a small welder which I can plug into the wall (110V) as I currently rent (no 220V in shop.)

I am interested in typical beginner projects like shelves, utility trailer, bumpers, etc.

I recently tried my buddies Hobby Weld 100 (flux core) and was surprised at how well it worked on 3/16" mild steel. I have also tried numerous stick welders and I can stick metal together with my homebrew OBW. The wire feed was unreal! Now I am hooked.

So should I get a Miller, AL, Lincon, Hobart, etc they all seem to make a 135 110V.

I am willing to spend a few bucks but don't want to throw my money away either. Should I wait and get a 220V when I buy a house (4mo. to a year) or get the 110V and start right now?

I see the A/L deal on the 175 (I think) for $1750, that looks like a good deal but I couldn't use it right now b/c no 220V. However, I could spend the money on a 110V then get a cut off saw and a shop compressor for the same price (give or take.)

Are the 135 110V just toys or they good for beginners. I think I could always sell it when I buy a house for half the value?

Do I need gas or is flux only ok? I would also like to weld aluminum in the future, what are the options.

Thanks again.

WW

[NOYFB]

Buy a cheap one then get a 220 when you get your house, I picked up a 110V for $200 off of some guy who bought it at an auction, it was barely used. They aren't a good deal if you want to rig them up for Aluminum but you could use the same stuff with your 220 in the future, they are not toy's, 3/16" is no problem with flux core wire, flux core wire will burn deeper than gas, but it is really messy. I'd like to have both a 110 and a 220. but for the amount I weld 2G's wont justify it even if I could talk my wife into letting me buy one.

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi stihl036,
This is tough question I guess it depends on how much money you want to spend, and if you by a 110V mig now are willing to take the loss (maybe 1/2 as you say) to trade up later. I guess what I would say is it sounds like the 110V unit you tried seemed to do what you wanted it to do for now, so by a small one for now and when you trade up later to a 220/230v unit you'll really like it! They don't come up very often, but look around for a name brand used one, or contact the local Air Liquide guys and see if they have any used/demo units they would make you a deal on so you take less of a hit later when you want to upgrade to a 220/230V unit. He might kill me but give Rob St-Jean a call at Air Liquide Vancouver and see if he has one he is willing to sell as a demo off his demonstration trailer, eventually he has to replace them anyway he is at 604 606 4300, he also is on this site you might be able to look him up on BC4X4 and send him an email. I'm pretty sure he sold one of the members his Hypertherm Powermax 600 Plasma.
If you buy a 110V unit now try to stick with the main brands, i.e. Air Liquide / Miller / Lincoln / Hobart. And buy it from a welding supplier who knows welding. I suggest that you stay away from the ones at CDN Tire/Princess Auto and the like since they are selling the really low end machines (Cebora/Clarke/Forney/Century) and they don't really know that much about welding so are just selling volume low end and won't be much help to you.
Re Flux Cored wire vs. mig wire and gas pro's & con's:
The FCAW wire is typically a E71T-GS or E71T-11 or E71T-14 (Air Liquide LA-T11 & LA-T14)gasless shielf shielded wire. They are ok to use outside where you shielding gas would get blown away by the wind. The caution here is if you look at the chemistry of these wires they use Aluminum and this results in very low impact strength. They do tend to give more penetration, but are more spattery, with a less pleasing appearance. Rule of Thumb, whenever using a filler metal with a flux/slag system (FCAW or Stick) use a backhand or drag technique. Also note that the wires are typically run with polarity electrode negative, whereas mig wire is run electrode positive. Lastly gasless wires of the T-14 class are designed for single pass welds. If you know you will be doing lots of multi-pass welds on thicker material go with the T-11.
Mig wire GMAW on the other hand is a solid bare wire that uses shielding gas to shield instead of flux. This will give you depending on the gas you choose (see Gas shielding article on this site) a nicer finish with less spatter. True less but adequate penetration into the base material, and way more control than FCAW especially on thin guage material. Rule of Thumb, a drag technique will give more penetration, a push technique will give less penetration. C02 is the least expensive but gives more penetration and less strength and is more spattery, Arg/C02 mixtures will give a bit less penetration, but less spatter and higher strength and higher impact strength. Air Liquide ALMIG gas is a good choice and comes in nice small cylinders perfect for these machines.Did I hear you say bumpers?
Finally re your Aluminum question. There are really only two ways to properly weld Aluminum. One is the TIG (GTAW) process, the other is the MIG (GMAW) process. If you are going to do a lot, get a spool gun to feed the Aluminum wire as it is very soft and can be difficult to feed down a long gun cable. Although not the best, but will get you by, most of these small mig machines will feed Aluminum. The Air Liquide M130 has a secondary spool inside standard to accomodate a 1Lb. spool of Aluminum wire, and it actually works pretty good. The Miller Millermatic 135, I think uses an adapter that you need to purchase. Not the best, I don't always advocate feeding aluminum this way but as I say will get you by for small jobs. The Air Liquide & I believe the Miller will now also allow you to connect a small spool gun and it also works pretty good. Rule of Thumb: the higher the Aluminum grade (4043 vs. 5356) the higher it has been alloyed and the stiffer it will be. The stiffer it is the easier it will be to feed. Note Aluminum requires a different gas than mild steel , so you will want to select a pure argon gas or a argon/helium mixture which will give more penetration, like Air Liquide ALTIG Gas which is great for Aluminum MIG.
Hope this helps,
Air Squid

[lars]

Originally posted by Dave@AirLiquide

give Rob St-Jean a call at Air Liquide Vancouver and see if he has one he is willing to sell as a demo off his demonstration trailer, eventually he has to replace them anyway he is at 604 606 4300, he also is on this site you might be able to look him up on BC4X4 and send him an email. I'm pretty sure he sold one of the members his Hypertherm Powermax 600 Plasma.

That's correct. AndrewH scored a used Hypertherm Powermax 600 from Rob St. Jean.


If you buy a 110V unit now try to stick with the main brands, i.e. Air Liquide / Miller / Lincoln / Hobart. And buy it from a welding supplier who knows welding. I suggest that you stay away from the ones at CDN Tire/Princess Auto and the like since they are selling the really low end machines (Cebora/Clarke/Forney/Century) and they don't really know that much about welding so are just selling volume low end and won't be much help to you.

Let's not forget that other thread from the guy with a Cebora welder who is having difficulty finding parts for it. I've had similar problems looking for Linde and L-TEC parts (although both are easier than finding stuff for Cebora).

Sticking with a name brand product, especially one with lots of dealer support in your area, will make your life so much easier.

...lars

[AndrewH]

Originally posted by lars

That's correct. AndrewH scored a used Hypertherm Powermax 600 from Rob St. Jean.


did i ever!


the best thing about buying a demo unit is Rob will replace all the consumables (with some haggling) and give you a full warrenty. it is like you are buying a brand new unit but not paying the 'new' price for it.

i highly suggest giving Rob St. J a call if you are serious about picking up a welder.....i hate to do this to you but i am pretty sure he has an m200 he is selling as a demo unit...

[Goat]

Nope, he sold the m200 demo! :(

[stihl036]

Hey,

Thanks for all the advice and info. I will go with the smaller unit now and then upgrade later. I am willing to take the loss later or better yet just keep the 110V when I upgrade to 220V.

Now the important question. Which one to get. I will heed your advice and stick with the major name brands.

My buddies is an older version of the Lincon Weld Pak Mig 10 ($599 at Cdn tire, House of tools $499.)

How about similar versions of the Lincon, Miller, Hobart Handler, A/L? Any one have any experience with them? What about costs.

I would like to buy local (Williams Lake/Quesnel) for future service needs so I won't bother Rob St. Jean.

Dave@Airliquide - I had to read your post 4 times (new to all the acronyms.) Thanks for all the info, good stuff. Do you have the names of any of the quys up in Quesnel (Superior Welding) that deal in A/L stuff. PM me if you don't want to post names. Wade&Jaymie@telus.net


Thanks,

WW

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Stihl036,
I of course have a lot of experience with the Air Liquide M130, which is good unit and offers some extra features like built in secondary spool hub to accomodate the 1 Lb Aluminum wire spools. It competes mostly againts the Hobart Handler. The Miller Millermatic 135 is a step up from these as they just re engineered it, (was formerly the Millermatic 130XP) It now has electronic output control using a potentiometer to give ininatetly variable output for easier setting instead of the more comon 4 or so steps one usually sees in this class of machine. I don't have that much experience with the Lincoln units, but I am sure that they also make a good product otherwise they would be in the market place. Just watch because Lincoln also make lower end units like the one you mentioned. they will have a range of machines. I would just compare the various machines for their price and features, and of course I am a little biased and would choose the Air Liquide for features/price and the fact that Airl Liquide is everywhere for parts and service.
I am affraid I do not know the Air Liquide guys in Williams Lake/Quesnel), maybe Air BC would jump in here, but there is Air Liquide in Kelwona & Kamploops and Castlegar. I think there might be an Air Liquide Distributor there maybe Tasco Supplies??? But usually all the Air Liquide/Distributors are list locally in the phone book yellow pages under Welding Supplies.
Air Squid:)

[cwate]

I've had great success with my Hobart 135. Lots of power for a 110V machine - it'll do 3/16" in a single pass if you take it slow. Only trouble is finding a circuit in the house that'll deliver the power without tripping the breaker :D

KMS carries the Hobart machines. Good brand name, no problem with parts if you need them, and I think their annual welding sale is coming up soon...

Chris (has no real experience with the Air Liquide machines)

[Dave@AirLiquide]

cwate makes a good point!
Regardless of the 115VAC Mig unit,ALW/Miller/Hobart/ Linciln/the way they are built in order to meet CSA / CE / NEMA they will draw 20 amps at 115 VAC and they will bust the normal houshold breaker when you use them at full output. It is normal for all.
Air Squid