What would you give for a true high pinion ford 9 inch???

[bigjeep95]

I am just starting this thread to get some input.

We all know that 9 inch rear ends have a very low pinion. I remember the first thing I thought when I was building my rear is hey why not just flip the pumpkin....oh ya that won't work you will drive backwards and would have possible lubrication problems......hmmm

We also know that 9 inch diffs never came in the front of vehicles so a high pinion option was never produced from the factory.

Well what are the other options? High pinion third member. Well that’s expensive and not a true 9 inch. This is the route I eventually went down. Now that I look back on it not a bad idea but there must be an easier way. I was looking for info on how rear end gears are cut. I couldn't really find to much. How hard would it be to produce a set of gears so you could flip the 9 inch pumpkin? I do a little cnc machine work every once and a while and I am able to make some cool stuff fairly easily. Would it really be that hard??? There might be other facts I am completely ignoring. Is this all you would need. Just different gears and possibly a lubrication solution???


Anyone with any insight into this deep thought would be greatly appreciated. I dunno it just seems like it could be done?

Thanks guys

:read :D

[mr.n]

Originally posted by bigjeep95
I was looking for info on how rear end gears are cut. I couldn't really find to much. You didn't look hard enough. Called Dana? Called anyone? Stopped by a gear manifacture?

Originally posted by bigjeep95
How hard would it be to produce a set of gears so you could flip the 9 inch pumpkin? I do a little cnc machine work every once and a while and I am able to make some cool stuff fairly easily. Would it really be that hard??? From what I gather, yes it it that hard. I'm guessing that is why a lot of people use spicer parts, just place their logo on it.

Originally posted by bigjeep95
There might be other facts I am completely ignoring. Is this all you would need. Just different gears and possibly a lubrication solution??? I'll give you points for thinking out of the box! however try making a model. You;ll notice that by flipping the housing your turning the wrong way. Even if you cut new gears it still will not work, tires still turn backwards. However if you had a truck and mounted your engine in the back, ran your drive train backwards.

Want to see a real 9" as a high pinion? Search on Mog axles that use the 9" center section.

[bigjeep95]

I have seen the avalanche stuff and it is awesome. But it is not a true high pinion. Its just a normal 9 inch thrid member with portal hubs. But it is still AWESOME!!! <drool> I want one.....

I guess combining the technology that avalanch enginnerring has been working with and a high pinion thrid member would be pretty cool. Or maybe a rr dana 60 with the portal hubs....uuhhhh that would be SO cool.....drool:cool:

[Rogue Bronco]

Usualy a person would prefer the low-pinion stuff w the portal ends because the center of the diff is not as far from the under carrage as a typical lift would have it. Issues with oil pans, & tranny clearance.

[bigjeep95]

Originally posted by Rogue Bronco
Usualy a person would prefer the low-pinion stuff w the portal ends because the center of the diff is not as far from the under carrage as a typical lift would have it. Issues with oil pans, & tranny clearance.

Hmmm but aren't mog axles high pinion style.....????hhmmmm

[D.O.A]

the High Pinion 9" is very weak, you drive on the coast side of the gear and they cant take the the stress, i cant remember the company off the top of my head, im pretty sure it is Currie, that is making the high pinion,i know that they are using the 8.8 ring and pinion modified some how.. but they just arent holding up to the abuse...

[chris siebert]

Ya, Currie is making the high pinion nine inch. It is very pricey.

I am working on a nine inch portal axle for the rear of my YJ. It will use a nine inch third member upsidedown with 2.47:1 ratio. The portal is just over 2:1. Final ratio will be 5.13:1. Not the highest gear ratio, but I can live with it with an overdrive. I am working on the rearend first, and the front will be done later on.

I am about to start working on a pinion support for it. This will require oil supply and return holes in different locations than stock. I will also add oil scoops to channel the oil off of where the ring gear meets the pinion and into the top of the pinion support.

It all sounds good in theory, hopefully it will work well. I suppose if the pinion still runs hot, I can add an external electric pump and tap the housing to run the oil into the support. I would rather stay away from this and use the dip splash method of lubrication instead.

I recently put the dif together for a test fit and measured the pinion height at 24 inches with 5 gallon pails under it to give the same height as 36 inch tires. This will give me a perfectly flat driveshaft. Cool!:)

16 inches of clearance at the lowest point of the dif with the same tires.

I found a way to use those $20 GM calipers for a cheap disk brake swap.

I will post pics when I get access to a digi camera again.

[bigjeep95]

Originally posted by chris siebert
Ya, Currie is making the high pinion nine inch. It is very pricey.

I am working on a nine inch portal axle for the rear of my YJ. It will use a nine inch third member upsidedown with 2.47:1 ratio. The portal is just over 2:1. Final ratio will be 5.13:1. Not the highest gear ratio, but I can live with it with an overdrive. I am working on the rearend first, and the front will be done later on.

I am about to start working on a pinion support for it. This will require oil supply and return holes in different locations than stock. I will also add oil scoops to channel the oil off of where the ring gear meets the pinion and into the top of the pinion support.

It all sounds good in theory, hopefully it will work well. I suppose if the pinion still runs hot, I can add an external electric pump and tap the housing to run the oil into the support. I would rather stay away from this and use the dip splash method of lubrication instead.


I recently put the dif together for a test fit and measured the pinion height at 24 inches with 5 gallon pails under it to give the same height as 36 inch tires. This will give me a perfectly flat driveshaft. Cool!:)

16 inches of clearance at the lowest point of the dif with the same tires.

I found a way to use those $20 GM calipers for a cheap disk brake swap.

I will post pics when I get access to a digi camera again.

What ever your doing keep it up and I would love to see the progress.......

..........but won't you still be driving backwards even with a portal hub setup....or a better question would be is how are you setting up your portal hubs.....hhhmmmm interesting. Could you set up portal hubs so that and upside down 9 inch pumpkin would turn the proper direction?????......very interesting..........

Another question even though the currie hp third member is weaker than the standard 8.8 in the rear application anyways would not alot of the stress be taken away by a portal hub setup???? Lower ratio stronger gears.... Food for thought!!! :D

Ps
Cheap disc bake swap .....<drool>

[Jeepercreeper]

There was a thread on Pirate4x4 awhile back about a company called Sunray engineering in Texas that was toying with the idea of building a true hi-pin 9 inch, having reveres cut gears made and using them in a standard 9 inch third member. As for the Currie hi-pin third which uses 8.8" reveres cut gears, is good up to a 38" tire in a front end application, but only a 35" tire in a rear end application. So there is about a 20 percent loss in strength when used in a rear diff.

[u2slow]

The biggest headache is going to be putting the pinion on the OPPOSITE SIDE of the ring gear :rolleyes:

Think about it guys... flipping the third is the same as flipping the whole rear end. Its going to drive backwards.

Reverse cut gears place the spiral in the opposite direction to be stronger - not to change the direction of rotation.

If you flipped the third, you'd have to find a way to keep the ring gear on the SAME SIDE of the pinion is relation to the housing/vehicle to keep it driving forward.

[lars]

Originally posted by bigjeep95

..........but won't you still be driving backwards even with a portal hub setup....or a better question would be is how are you setting up your portal hubs.....hhhmmmm interesting.

If Chris just uses two gears in the portals, he'll reverse the direction.

BTW, any of you guys watch TLC on Sunday @ 10p (or Wed at 8 or 9p)?? That's when Full Metal Challenge is on. One of the rigs in last week's competition had home-built portal axles using a chain drive system - and four-wheel steer. Their build-up costs were capped at USD$3000 so the home-made chain boxes were a cheap way to build portals. BTW, a British team built their own tracked vehicle which was also pretty cool. The winner of that show was a Chinese team with a vehicle made from two BJ's, which are Chinese-built, military-style Jeeps. It had two 85 hp motors, one of which was in a powered trailer that could be added or removed as necessary.


Another question even though the currie hp third member is weaker than the standard 8.8 in the rear application anyways would not alot of the stress be taken away by a portal hub setup???? Lower ratio stronger gears.... Food for thought!!! :D

Definitely.

...lars

[Paul]

Originally posted by D.O.A
the High Pinion 9" is very weak, you drive on the coast side of the gear and they cant take the the stress, i cant remember the company off the top of my head, im pretty sure it is Currie, that is making the high pinion,i know that they are using the 8.8 ring and pinion modified some how.. but they just arent holding up to the abuse...

I would have figured that the Currie unit would have used the gearset for an 8.8" front but from the sounds of it they aren't. Wonder why... but that wouldn't stop someone else from using an 8.8" front in their own homemade high pinion 9".

[Joe M]

Originally posted by lars
BTW, any of you guys watch TLC on Sunday @ 10p (or Wed at 8 or 9p)?? That's when Full Metal Challenge is on. One of the rigs in last week's competition had home-built portal axles using a chain drive system - and four-wheel steer. Their build-up costs were capped at USD$3000 so the home-made chain boxes were a cheap way to build portals. BTW, a British team built their own tracked vehicle which was also pretty cool. The winner of that show was a Chinese team with a vehicle made from two BJ's, which are Chinese-built, military-style Jeeps. It had two 85 hp motors, one of which was in a powered trailer that could be added or removed as necessary.

That was sooooo sweet. I liked the the Chinese rig the best, I'm a sucker for dual engines, removable 3rd axles and big rear tires :)

That portal hub setup was pretty ghetto, but certainly a very cool idea. Hehe, that first chain they tried looked like a bike chain. Snapped right away as I recall.

Lars keep your eyes peeled for a show on discovery called something like Monster Garage. I think I saw it on sunday or monday night. It's a crazy show, I only caught a part of it, but it's similar to full metal challange in that the competitors build up vehicles to outmuscle the others. Very cool engineering. I was watching one team build a hearse with backhoe style digging arms on the back. Crazy stuff!

[chris siebert]

I am using unimog 404 portals. They use two gears inside the portal. With the nine inch upsidedown, it is turning in reverse, but the direction is reversed again with the lower gear in the portal, so it is now forwards. In this application, the load will be placed on the coast side of the gearset, but I don't believe that this will be a big issue with a nine inch center section.

This has been done by a guy named John Reynolds on Pirate 4x4, but without disk brakes on the wheels and his isn't a daily driver. He did resolve the oiling issue, but it hasn't been tested with serious road miles.

Currie high pinion nines do use the front 8.8 gearsets from Expeditions I believe. There were not alot of low ratios available for it. Currie sells some lower ones, but there is a limited selection. You still use a carrier from a nine inch, though.

[bigjeep95]

If anyone has any pics of anything....I know I would be Dying to see them......<drool>...portal.....<uuhhhh>:redneck

ps

I have looked at several pics of portal hubs. Would it be that difficult to make a set.....straight cut gears.....hhhmmmm i wonder
With the world of cnc possibilities are truly endless.....unfortunatley money is not....DAMN!

[mr.n]

Originally posted by chris siebert
I am working on a nine inch portal axle for the rear of my YJ. It will use a nine inch third member upsidedown with 2.47:1 ratio. The portal is just over 2:1. Final ratio will be 5.13:1. Not the highest gear ratio, but I can live with it with an overdrive. I am working on the rearend first, and the front will be done later on.

I will post pics when I get access to a digi camera again. NO don't wait on the digi camera. If you have to buy a cheap $5 tempory camera. What ever you do take pics, and a lot! Then scan them and post away!

[bigjeep95]

Originally posted by mr.n
NO don't wait on the digi camera. If you have to buy a cheap $5 tempory camera. What ever you do take pics, and a lot! Then scan them and post away!

Yes pictures are good....NEED PICTURES!!!!!:welder

[AndrewH]

here you go...

[AndrewH]

through pinion design for 6x6

[AndrewH]

housing with flanges welded on...

[AndrewH]

another

[bigjeep95]

Andrew where the F*&% did you find all those AWESOME pics.....man......GOOD Work!!!:D

Ps <Drool overload> Need more pics to keep brain solid.......uuuuuuuhhhhh anyone......

[bigjeep95]

I am solid modeling some portal hub housings and I am wondering if any one knows the distance between the center line of the input axles and the output shafts on the portals on the unimog, volvo, and avalanche style portal hubs. I am just guessing right now. Any info would be great!!!

Make stuff is so cool.........:redneck

[bigjeep95]

Found some good stuff------------

http://www.ctmracing.com/portal.shtml

[bigjeep95]

Ohhhh more........
http://www.xtremeaxle.com/

[boytruck4x4]

You were looking for a real high pinion 9" ford 3rd member, I found it!!!

In your address bar on the top of the page type in

www.truehi9.com

[Dan]

So really, instead of trying to make your own gears, make your own third member that places the pinion on the other side of the ring gear.

[ChrisL]

Originally posted by D.O.A
the High Pinion 9" is very weak, you drive on the coast side of the gear and they cant take the the stress, i cant remember the company off the top of my head, im pretty sure it is Currie, that is making the high pinion,i know that they are using the 8.8 ring and pinion modified some how.. but they just arent holding up to the abuse...

Have you heard of any specific cases of failure? I looked for specific complaints but couldn't find any before I bought mine.

I found a few people who had "heard of" failures but not from anyone who actually ran one.

I don't dispute that they are not as strong as a D60 but they aren't "very weak", my old D35, now that was weak :laugh :laugh

Chris.

[Jarett]

Originally posted by bigjeep95


Hmmm but aren't mog axles high pinion style.....????hhmmmm

Not really. The pinion pretty much in in the centre of the diff.
http://members.shaw.ca/jaretthumphrey/pics/Power_Wagon/axles_0002.jpg

[boytruck4x4]

There has been reference to it being weak. I don't think they're using 8.8 gears. They look like the much stronger 9" ford gears. The web address is www.truehi9.com too see pictures.

[ChrisL]

Originally posted by boytruck4x4
There has been reference to it being weak. I don't think they're using 8.8 gears. They look like the much stronger 9" ford gears. The web address is www.truehi9.com too see pictures.

The CHP 9" isn't as strong as a well built 31 spline low pinion 9" but I think it's stronger than your typical EB 9" that a lot of Jeep guys use. The housing is more rigid, bigger axle tubes, 31 spline axles. The weak point is obviously the gear set but that's not what usually breaks in a rear diff. Usually it's the axles or locker and the axles are better than stock 9" and the locker is comparable.

Now obviously this axle is weak when comared to a LP 9" built with portals, especially considering that the portals cut the torque that the axles/diff sees by about 50%.

Chris.

[bigjeep95]

Hey look at that, a true hi-pinion 9". Crazy!...I love it! But the down side is that it does not look to cheap......:redneck

[boytruck4x4]

Why does the rock monkey keep calling it a currie high pinion. Did he go to the website to see the difference between the currie and this other high pinion 9? One uses 8.8 gears and the other uses 9" gears. I think that pinion and ring gear deflection is almost eliminated with the true 9".

[strong_like_tractor]

Why - because that's what he has in his Jeep. FYI the 8.8 gear sets that currie is using are from the front diff of F150 IFS setup so you are not driving on the coast side because they are cut for reverse rotation. As for the gear's appearance: Ford doesn't have a carrier brake for their diffs - instead they use thicker gears.

If that isn't strong enough for you then you can always build up a 35 spline HP60 rear end.

JP

[boytruck4x4]

Did anybody read the initial thread asking for a real high pinion 9.
That is what is at www.truehi9.com Not a currie 8.8. What is stronger about the dana 60, the smaller teeth or the lack of a third pocket bearing or the lack of a thrust block.

[ChrisL]

Originally posted by boytruck4x4
Did anybody read the initial thread asking for a real high pinion 9.
That is what is at www.truehi9.com Not a currie 8.8. What is stronger about the dana 60, the smaller teeth or the lack of a third pocket bearing or the lack of a thrust block.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mess up the thread. I just wanted to respond to the earlier mention of CHP 9" being very weak :-). I know that the two are different. I'll shut up now :laugh

Chris.

[boytruck4x4]

There seems to be some new case pictures of the high pinion 9 inch ford. The main caps look identical to the ones on my strange case.