Idea for getting new amateur radio users

[lars]

I'm sure serious HAMs would kill me for suggesting this but...

It bugs the hell out of me that so few fourwheelers are using VHF radios. The quality and range of CB comms is deplorable compared to VHF. So, in an effort to get more of them licensed how about:


Organize a group of people who want to get licensed.
Send them copies of the quiz program and get them to do the quiz for, say, 30 min a day for 1 week until they consistently score around 60%.
Arrange a tester to give the exam in one or two different locations/times.


No, they wouldn't learn a whole lot, but they'd get their license fast w/o having to spend $30 on the book. Nor would they have to budget several hours to take a formal class.

Could the average person memorize enough just from the quiz program to pass the exam?

Are there other, more effective alternatives?

...lars

[rattle]

I would be into helping. Not a serious HAM by any means but think it is a good idea. I know of a couple of people that could probably be talked into getting their license.

[J20]

i am very interested in getting my license....................and would love to do this.........great idea lars..................pls keep me posted:redneck

[lars]

I would be into helping. Not a serious HAM by any means but think it is a good idea. I know of a couple of people that could probably be talked into getting their license.

Anyone know a HAM who is authorized to give the exam?

...lars

[mud-dog27]

where would we get said quiz im interested its just the price of the radios thats stopped me and i think burnaby radio does the exams

[sdillen]

I'm sure serious HAMs would kill me for suggesting this but...

[snip]

Could the average person memorize enough just from the quiz program to pass the exam?

Are there other, more effective alternatives?

...lars

You won't find me arguing against this. I guessed my way through my basic exam. it's not hard to score a passing mark -- and after I passed I started to research the areas of the hobby I was most interested. From there I decided that I wanted HF access because of the long range aspect of it...which was the drive for me to learn morse -- even though the writing was on the wall about morse being dropped as a requirement.

There are a lot of study programs out there -- RAC offers a few and I think that most clubs have some kind of an education program.

I understand that the Radio Amateurs of Canada are advocating a "entry level" license as well which is based on radio operational procedure as opposed to radio techical theory. http://www.rac.ca/news/foundation.pdf

[lars]

where would we get said quiz im interested its just the price of the radios thats stopped me and i think burnaby radio does the exams

You can download the test generator (ICP.EXE) by clicking on this link:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ICP.exe/$FILE/ICP.exe

Play with it for 30 min a day and I guarantee you'll be able to pass the exam after 1 week. Just treat it like a memory game (a really boring one).

Hey, why don't you be our guinea pig. Start running through the quiz and tell us how many hours of practice it takes you before you can get a passing grade? I'd really be interested in the answer.


...lars

[lars]

There are a lot of study programs out there -- RAC offers a few and I think that most clubs have some kind of an education program.
True, but I think we need a more painless or convenient method for people to prepare for the exam. If we can show people that just playing with ICP.EXE for half an hour a night would prep them enough by the end of the week, I think we could convince people to do it.


I understand that the Radio Amateurs of Canada are advocating a "entry level" license as well which is based on radio operational procedure as opposed to radio techical theory. http://www.rac.ca/news/foundation.pdf
That would be great. I think most people these days aren't interested in building radios or antennas so a lot of the course content and test content is irrelevant. Like you, anyone who does wish to delve further into the hobby can find the info they need, especially with widespread Internet access these days.

I think they mainly need to learn the regulations and why they're there.


...lars

[J20]

this exam is never ending:help:

[J20]

ok started to get a little clue less at the end 37%:help:

[GoreD]

I think more hams would be great! I took a course offered by the local club here on the coast. Then i took the test and missed it by 1 mark. Then found out about the icp.exe. I played with this for a couple weeks, went back and got 89%. I believe there is 1000 questions and they randomly select 100. So do the thing 10 times and you should have it figured ... I think some peoples biggest fear of ham is that it's hard. But it's not really, the information is there! I bought a handheld radio for $200 and now have 3 antennas for it. One of which i built myself. I am so happy with it that i'm trying to save for a mobile (in car) unit. I think the next addition will be a solid mount 2M antenna for the jeep, the darn magnetic just keeps falling off!

[lars]

ok started to get a little clue less at the end 37%:help:
I had bought a study guide and after I read the first 2-3 chapters, I got around 40% the 1st time I took the test! So really, getting that score w/o even reading the book is great.

Nail the first half of the test (mostly non-technical) and you'll be fine.

...lars

[DnD]

I'm in and I can definitely come up with at least two others if we need a minimum for an exam session.

[lars]

ok started to get a little clue less at the end 37%:help:
J20, have you tried the exam anymore since you got 37%? Any other newbies wanna try it to see how long it takes them to get more than 50%?

My idea is simply that we don't get together to do this. Instead, we get together online just to post how much progress we're making on the test. I just thought that by getting people to work on it at the same time, they could encourage one another and then we could arrange for a single appointment to take the test en masse.

...lars

[J20]

havnt tried again yet lars..............its going to be a busy week so i probally wont get back at it till the weekend:read

[Coalsmoke]

is there a way to do this through the internet? I can't seem to get ti to run on my mac. I've made it this far looking for either a mac version or an online version, http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inict-tic.nsf/en/Home

Any help would be appreciated.

[lars]

is there a way to do this through the internet? I can't seem to get ti to run on my mac. I've made it this far looking for either a mac version or an online version, http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inict-tic.nsf/en/Home

Any help would be appreciated.
(I couldn't get to your link from work...not sure why)

Back when I was looking into getting my license, I ran across a site that had all the possible test questions and answers: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric7.pdf/$FILE/ric7.pdf

And I *know* there are freeware quiz programs available for the Mac...so if you don't mind spending a few hours, you could type in or copy/paste all the info into a Mac quiz program. Of course, you should then host it so other Mac users can benefit from it, or send it to me and I'll host it on the main site.



...lars

[Luc]

Great ideas. I have a VHF but no licence for it. I'll run throught the exam and see what happens. Thanks.

[Coalsmoke]

thanks lars, but at 105 pages at ~10 questions a page, I'll be here more than a few hours. That'd be an all day job, and I don't have that volume of free time at the moment, maybe as a winter project. If anyone comes across an already hosted online ham quiz please let me / us know. Thanks.

[westcoaster]

J20, have you tried the exam anymore since you got 37%? Any other newbies wanna try it to see how long it takes them to get more than 50%?

My idea is simply that we don't get together to do this. Instead, we get together online just to post how much progress we're making on the test. I just thought that by getting people to work on it at the same time, they could encourage one another and then we could arrange for a single appointment to take the test en masse.

...lars


Ok, I just got 62%
This is the first run through a complete test. The other day I did 20 some questions....

[lars]

Ok, I just got 62%
This is the first run through a complete test. The other day I did 20 some questions....
That's very good! Do you have any radio or electronics experience?

Can anyone confirm that you can just drop-in and write the test at Burnaby Radio?

...lars

[J20]

Ok, I just got 62%
This is the first run through a complete test. The other day I did 20 some questions....

holy crap dude.......correct me if im wrong but thats a passing mark right???guess i better go and:read

[Dan]

J20, have you tried the exam anymore since you got 37%? Any other newbies wanna try it to see how long it takes them to get more than 50%?



...lars

Okay, wow thats really really boring and brain damaging.

I scored exactly 50% on my first try.

I was suprised, thats not many questions away from a passing grade.

as far as all that frequency stuff, and effects of ionisphere and all those other fancy words that left me clueless, I bombed.

but there was a suprising amount of basic first aid, basic electronics, and standard CB stuff that was no problem at all.

For a random draw out of a thousand questions, I'm sure there could be a selection of questions that could be pulled that I could ace, and still have no clue what frequency bands I'm allowed to ace.

I'll try again when I want to fall asleep early again.

Dan.

[rattle]

Well I just tried that and got 54%.

[Dan]

okay just finished it a second time.

50% again.

it felt more difficult this time, despite the same score. There were no easy questions, but a lot of logical guessing answered some.

the worst questions for someone without a clue like me are the "which of the following is NOT true"

yeah like I know, they start talking frequencies, Hz, Kz, solar radiation, side band,

I've got no clue. I can shorten an antenna to tune it with an SWR meter, and if I can't tune it by lengthening or shortening, I'm lost.

Reasons for interference, distortion, key chirps, I don' t know.

I do think a few more tries though and I will be able to hit the magic 60% just through plain old repeat questions.

Kinda silly, I could probably get a license by the end of the week, and be able to buy a radio with the ability to transmit to places that I am not allowed to transmit to, but yet I won't have a clue that I'm not allowed to do it.

I suppose its no different than most new drivers

[westcoaster]

holy crap dude.......correct me if im wrong but thats a passing mark right???guess i better go and:read


I have no idea what the passing mark is...


What is it by the way???

[rattle]

I have no idea what the passing mark is...


What is it by the way???

60% I think.

[lars]

I have no idea what the passing mark is...


What is it by the way???

60%

...lars

[Lone Ranger]

Why not just go into any radio shop and purchase a 4 channel commercial VHF and run one of the LAD channels or some of the logging channels like Plateu or Kicker? LAD 3's pretty quiet for the most part in the Fraser Valley, and there's nothing stopping anyone from using LAD 2 either. Most of the common logging freq's are for the northern BC area so they're pretty quiet down here (plus, they usually get used as our off channels for chatting on the highway).

I don't know exact prices but a decent one can usually be purchased for around $400 new plus about $100 for an antenna. Keeping them on low power (usually 5 watts) still gives you a good few miles of good range and it won't interfere with anyone else.. A lot simpler than going for your ham licence and anyone can use them...

[Dan]

Finally, I scored 60%

my brain hurts now.

I have no idea what most of that stuff meant. I swear it was lucky guess most of the time on that one. A few repeat questions helped too.

I really think I'd need to read a few chapters of the manual to be able to pass
a real test. Most of these terms I have no clue what they mean, a bunch of
electronic components they question about I have no clue what they are, let
alone what they do or how they're constructed.

edit: did it again, I dont know why, I should be sleeping, but scored 62%, whoohooo.

[lars]

Finally, I scored 60%

my brain hurts now.

I have no idea what most of that stuff meant. I swear it was lucky guess most of the time on that one. A few repeat questions helped too.

I really think I'd need to read a few chapters of the manual to be able to pass
a real test. Most of these terms I have no clue what they mean, a bunch of
electronic components they question about I have no clue what they are, let
alone what they do or how they're constructed.

edit: did it again, I dont know why, I should be sleeping, but scored 62%, whoohooo.
Dan, how many times have you taken the test so far?

...lars

[Luc]

Hey Lone Ranger, What are the areas for the LAD's, BC and AB? Always people on #1 in the lower mainland and all the BC hwy's i've driven so far.

[lars]

Why not just go into any radio shop and purchase a 4 channel commercial VHF and run one of the LAD channels or some of the logging channels like Plateu or Kicker?

What frequencies are Plateau and Kicker, and why are they called that?


I don't know exact prices but a decent one can usually be purchased for around $400 new plus about $100 for an antenna. Keeping them on low power (usually 5 watts) still gives you a good few miles of good range and it won't interfere with anyone else.. A lot simpler than going for your ham licence and anyone can use them...
Well, a much more versatile 2m ham radio can be bought for $200 (although I assume the commercial units would be better quality). Also, those VHF channels you're referring to are only supposed to be used by users to buy the right to use that frequency in that area, aren't they? In other words, they'd be breaking the law, so if they're going to do that, then why not just buy a 2m ham radio and use it illegally anyway?


...lars

[lars]

Hey Lone Ranger, What are the areas for the LAD's, BC and AB? Always people on #1 in the lower mainland and all the BC hwy's i've driven so far.
Here's what I have written down:
LAD (Local Area Dispatch)
Channel 1) 154.100 Mhz Simplex
BC only, excluding Greater Van and the Lower Mainland

Channel 2) 158.940 Mhz Simplex
All of BC

Channel 3) 154.325 Mhz Simplex
Channel 4) 173.370 Mhz Simplex

[Luc]

Thanks Lars, I start receiving trucks in the lower mainland about two thirds of the way up Harrison Lake. VHF's are so much better then CB's. I have my aviation radio licence, now I want to get my HAM licence. Just need more time to run through the exam.

[Lone Ranger]

They're just open frequencies that are very commonly used through out BC (albeit most of those are based out of P.G.). I can't remember the freq's for Plateu and Kicker (there's a ton of them, Giscome, Dunkley, Blackwater, Cranbrook, Arrow North and South, Rustad, Huckleberry [Van Isle but the Blaine City Police use this for their dispatch], I think there's actually 6 Lad channels in BC, plus we have our own Glenncoe freq [170.880 MHz] that is licenced for our city guys but they haven't used it in a while due to going to Qualcomm satelites).

From what I have found the commercial radios are a heck of a lot tougher since they're designed to last in a logging truck (which would be ideal for a 4x4 because they see the same amount of abuse). I just hold so many stinkin' licences that I'm not really looking forward to my ham licence albeit I have been wanting one for ages (saves me the $50/yr licencing cost for the commercial radios). I think the only other two licences I can possibly get are my CORE and class 6. I can legally drive/own just about anything else around...

[GoreD]

is there a way to do this through the internet? I can't seem to get ti to run on my mac. I've made it this far looking for either a mac version or an online version, http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inict-tic.nsf/en/Home

Any help would be appreciated.

I ran into the same problem. The problem lies in the fact that the file you download is a .exe file. As far as i know the only way to get a .exe to work on a mac is with VirtualPC. It worked for me. Hope this helps ...

[Dan]

Dan, how many times have you taken the test so far?

...lars

Four times, 62% on my fourth try.

My bet is that by ten times I'd be scoring in the 75% range.

[valdicor]

Frist go...40% :cwm10: :whiteflag:

Will see if I can improve it over the long weekend.

[Regger]

I ran into the same problem. The problem lies in the fact that the file you download is a .exe file. As far as i know the only way to get a .exe to work on a mac is with VirtualPC. It worked for me. Hope this helps ...

Hey Guys, Have you tried the RAC (radio Amateurs of Canada) Exam?.. I just found it today, and its a lot user and study friendly than the ICP exam.

ExHAMiner10.zip file (http://www.rac.ca/downloads/ExHAMiner10.zip)

Its right on the front page of the RAC RAC HomePage (http://www.rac.ca/)

This one keeps a history of your exams, as well as your inccorect answers so you can study from that.

On the ICP program, I went from 53% to 68% with 11 tries in about a month or so.. So, I'm going to give this new exam a try and see what I can do twice (but at least once)a day for the next week and see how I do.

Ryan

[lars]

Wow, that's a great find, Ryan! Thanks for that. Wish I found that when I was studying for the exam.

...lars

[Regger]

Yeah, I know... Definetly something that should be passed around instead of the ICP program. I just did a run through last night and got 54%... not good, but it was like 2am..

But after each wrong answer, I could get an explaination of the correct answer so that I knew exactly why it was wrong.

As well, you can skip a question and come back to it later, just like in a real test.. Do the ones you know first, and then work on the others later.

Plus, at the end, it gives you a break down of each section and how it did. So you can go to that section and re-study it.

This is the cats meow compared to the ICP.. Now hopefully it will get my butt in gear and finally get my license, so I dont feel guilty having my radio..

Ryan

[valdicor]

Wow, a much better tool...(opinion biased somewhat because I am getting a better score!)

I really like the explanations too; just leave it on and then I can review even the right answers (by going back) to see if my reasoning matches the answer.

[valdicor]

So first pass with the ExHAMiner was 47% and second try was 66%. It seemed easier the second time, which I believe is because of the explanation given on wrong answers and the chance to go back and review even correct answers.

I have a limited knowledge of electrical theory and no real understanding of frequencies (until now of course). I highly recommend lars' suggestion to use this a couple times to build up your skills.

Has anyone else found the same usefullness of this tool? Also, I haven't seen any discussion about setting up a test (something about Buranby Radio) and minimum numbers. DnD had three bodies, plus Dan and a few others.

[Regger]

Okay, so far on the 3rd try in as many days, I'm at 65% (54%, 60%, 65%) with two pages of notes from my wrong answers... So I'll try and study in the morning before work, and then take the test again afterwork... Keep doing this for the rest of the week and I should be ready to take the test in no time...

This program's explainations are a lot easier to read than the Study guide Book I have. The program's are less detailed, but to the point, the study book takes a paragraph to say the same thing.

AS for taking the test, My local radio Club in Chilliwack is more than happy to accomdate my schedule, so I dont think I'll have an issue there.

Then I can try and get the rest of my club on board as well....

had a chance on the weekend to test out the range.. FRom Chilliwack to Deroche with full bars on reception... that probably about 15km as the crow flies with a few hills in between... No match for the CB...

Ryan

[Regger]

Okay, I'm up to 71% now after 5 tries....

So if 60% is the minimum for getting the basic, what is it for basic and HF?... If I'm going to do this, might as well go all out... then I can actually use my 10m instead of just for a CB

Ryan

[lars]

So if 60% is the minimum for getting the basic, what is it for basic and HF?... If I'm going to do this, might as well go all out... then I can actually use my 10m instead of just for a CB


"Amateurs showing superior knowledge of operational, technical and regulatory requirements by attaining an 80% score on the basic exam or passing the advanced exam, will also be granted access to the HF bands."

...lars

[Dan]

I just realized, there is no point to me passing the test. The repeat question I keep getting has the correct answer of

"may never be used for superfluous.......

well geez I'd never be allowed to even touch the transmit button

[Dan]

So that new test, uhh, not so good. 50%

not fair asking me some real radio questions about frequency and antenna lengths and all that nonsens thats just a bunch of meaningless nubers to me.

oddly enough there were a lot of resistance and current questions, which I should've been good at, since I learned all that stuff for my job, and actually passed tests at 100% on, but it seems I've forgotten it all and I couldn't for the life of me remember which was voltage and which was amperage out of the E.I in ohms law.

[J20]

i have been lazy the last week:help: :whiteflag: hopefully get back to tryin it again on sunday..........:read

[valdicor]

"Amateurs showing superior knowledge of operational, technical and regulatory requirements by attaining an 80% score on the basic exam or passing the advanced exam, will also be granted access to the HF bands."

That's not fair...I was feeling pretty comfy and now I want to have it all! Maybe another, say, 20 tries will get me there.

[GoreD]

I couldn't for the life of me remember which was voltage and which was amperage out of the E.I in ohms law.

All you've got to remember is

E=IR ... Volts(V)=Current(A) x Resustance(Ohms)

P=EI ... Power(Watts)= Voltage(V) x Current(A)

if you have any 2 out of the 3 you can just use some math to figure it out. Helps if you were paying attention in algebra too ...

[Regger]

Damn.. Back down to 68%.. I guess the 2 day break didnt help.. that and the program seemed like it picked questions I've never done before... ( I guess I gotta quit picking the random button..;P )

Also, I just read on the Chilliwack ARC website, that the minimum is now 70%...
....As well, I just confirmed that on the Industry Canada Website as well...
Basic Qualitfication Examination"The pass mark is 70%. A score of 80% or above will grant the individual additional privileges commensurate with a Basic with Honours Qualification." this is as of July 2005

Cause I'm thinking of just getting my basic now, and hopefully get the HF later when I might actually use it.. then again, I procrastinate too much, and probably wouldnt ever study again.. Maybe I'll just shoot for 80%....

Thanks,
Ryan

[Fullm00ner]

If anybody is on the island I can help by supplying an examiner as well as setting up study/courses. Over here the PEP has run through about 70 "dumb stick" people who will never use their callsigns.
4X4 people are much more interested from the beginning as they tend to have experienced the benifites and detriments of various bands/frequencies.....
Anyhow I have access to about 500+ older 50w mobile comercial VHF radios with various S/S whips etc. Tons of handhelds 12 ga wire etc. If a group of guys gets together I can facilitate setting up some radios for people who are going to get licenced.
VE7VEK
Chris in Victoria.
PS. I have repeaters cans whips radios wire racks propane generators anything and everything mind you its older gear but its all cheap!!!
Chris
250-642-1357

[crazyguy]

seems like it would be a good idea if the test was more based on how to act properly on the radio, what your not suppose to do, and what you are allowed to do. if you want to build stuff just go google what you want to know.

[rsl]

just go to.
http://www.hamstudy.com/
It is a self study site run by VE7 AV Frank Vanderzande, he is also a designated examiner for BC and will happily answer any questions you may have.

VE5 RSL
Russ

[atom10]

You really need to find a convenient way to prepare for the exam.

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[Spike Jones]

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