We now have PRO WELDING ADVICE on the board

[Wil]

I'm really pleased to be able to announce that the BC4x4 BB now has professional welding advice available from Air Liquide. Quite a few of you have met Dave Comer and Rob St. Jean of Air Liqude through the welding courses but they now are going to participate on the board.

So if you have any questions concerning welding processes, Air Liquide welding products, plasma cutting and welding gases please feel free to ask them on this board they will be very happy to help you out anyway they can.

For those of you who have purchased Air Liquide product you will find this an excellent way of getting any type of product support you need also.

If you need any type of welding :help they are here to answer your questions.

[jo-jo]

Cool, since I'm primarily self-taught, I have lots of questions! :welder

[AndrewH]

well i will ask the first question for Rob....is my 600 ready yet????? i'm getting anxious

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Guys,
Rob St Jean(B.C.) and myself are real pleased to be on line to help out when ever we can. I even like my new handle Thanks to 1 bronco guy! Hey Rob where is AndrewH's Powermax 600!
Dave Comer
air squid
Product Manager Welding Equipment
Air Liquide Canada Inc

[1bronco guy]

:p :welder

[1bronco guy]

so i guess Rob could be called AIR BC!
:laugh

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Rob! Are you there? Air BC!!!!!
Air Squid:p

[swamp monster]

What would be the approximate thickness of mild steel, that can be safely welded(GMAW process) using .023 solid core wire(110v) with bluesheild ?

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Good Morning swamp monster,
Interesting question...using either a Blueshield # 8 (75%argon/25%C02) or better Almig (6% C02, 2% Oxygen, Bal argon) you could weld in a single pass with the M130 for example 3/16" mild steel with .023 wire. I have done 1/4" with the M130 using .030 to prove a point. But keeping in mind,

"welding is 85% preparation and 15% arc"

If you properly prepare the material and weld joint to be welded, you can certainly do multipass welds. I have seen welds with GMAW wire that have 16-24 passes and have been x-rayed and passed! If I had a thicker piece of material to weld, I would certainly look at putting in a first root weld and then fill passes staggered to fill the joint and finally cover passes for the top.

Another small rule of thumb for GMAW is to consider the directection of travel, i.e. forehand(push) or backhand(drag). You will get more penetration for thicker material with a drag technique, and less penetration for thin material with a push technique. Hey, this welding thing is starting to sound pretty sexy!;)

hope this helps,
Air Squid

[Dan]

Okay Dave, so there I was at the welding course welding away and then you did your magic with the machine and it started to do that spray arc thing.

Now why the heck can't I duplicate that again????? I've played with every power and wire speed setting and can't make it work.

Can you give me some guidelines to get it set up?

I can sure burn holes like nobodys business though :D

[lars]

Originally posted by Dan
Okay Dave, so there I was at the welding course welding away and then you did your magic with the machine and it started to do that spray arc thing.

Now why the heck can't I duplicate that again????? I've played with every power and wire speed setting and can't make it work.

Can you give me some guidelines to get it set up?

I can sure burn holes like nobodys business though :D

Dan, what gas are you using? Check the gas article (www.bc4x4.com/tech/2002/gases) to find a gas suitable for this application. ALMIG comes to mind.

...lars

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Dan,
Spray transfer requires a shielding gas which contains a minimum of 85% argon, so if you are using C02 or 75/25 it won't happen. You can get close with 75/25 but not quite. Use a forehand (push) technique and maintain around 1/2" wire stickout from the gun. This should be used only in the flat position as the weld puddle will be too fluid in out of position welds.
The easiest way to achieve this would be to put your machine in the highest volatge setting, turn your wire feed speed all he way to the top and then start adjusting the wire feed speed down until you achive the arc you are looking for. You can further fine tune by adjusting distance of gun from work and travel speed.:)
Air Squid
P.S. No magic...just practice

[Dan]

Ahhhh, the gas thing again. How silly am I. I have to check now. Thanks :)

[cambo]

hey dave why not spray transfer in the horizontal?

[cwate]

Question about the plasma cutters.

Any chance you could use one for TIG if you shut the air off, or is there no way that would work?

Chris

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Originally posted by cambo
hey dave why not spray transfer in the horizontal?

Hi Cambo,
Spray transfer utilizes a high voltage setting resulting in a more fliud puddle and tends to run away on you when out of position. You could try a spray in the horizontal with a land of some kind, i.e. a horizontal lap joint using the bottom piece as a shelf, but again watch that your puddle dos'nt sag or run down on you.
Air Squid

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Originally posted by cwate
Question about the plasma cutters.

Any chance you could use one for TIG if you shut the air off, or is there no way that would work?

Chris

Chris,
Nice idea, I like your thinkin'! Since a TIG torch and a Plasma torch are really almost cousins, they both use an arc on the end of a non consumable electrode TIG (Tungsten) Plasma (Hafnium), and since both power sources are DC Constant Current (CC) you would think this could be done.
Unfortunately, the difference between a TIG Power Source and a Plasma Power Source lies with the Open Circuit Volatge (OCV) that the machine produces. A Tig (or STICK, Both CC), has a typical OCV of about 80 Volts. A Plasma Power Source on the other hand requires a much higher OCV to generate the cutting arc around 300 Volts as in the case of the Hypertherm Powermax 600.
DO NOT ATTEMPT to connect a GTAW torch to your Plasma Cutter as thou shalt experience fusion of the torch etc. and epose thyself to heavy DANGER!!!
I always warn people about getting touchy feely with the front end of any welding power source, but even more so with a plasma torch because of the OCV, hence why most manufacturers have built in safety interlocks so when the front end of the torch is apart the power source will not operate.
AIR SQUID

[cwate]

Ah, wisdom! :D

Thanks Dave,
Chris

[cambo]

hey air squid i was just testin ya....i'm a certified "c", not much in the world of welding but remembered running spray in the horizontal at school (required) . who do you think is putting out the "best" multi- process machine right now? i want to pulse aluminum and am leaning towards the lincoln power mig 300 with the push pull set-up. any thoughts??? p.s. this is not a test!! lol

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Cambo,
Sorry I did'nt catch yur post sooner. Been busy. Any how, The best multi-process on the market currently that I know is the Miller XMT 300. Multi-process power sources are funny cause you have to give up a little CC (stick/Tig) to get a little CV (Mig FCAW). It's a bit of a trade off. But if you look to Inverters you will find the best multi-process.

[Paul]

Hey Dave I just bought a used Century 83160 and it came with a couple of partial spools of wire. One is .023 and the other is .035. I'm new to mig welding so what thickness of metal can I weld with each of these?

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Paul,
.023" (0.6mm) GMAW(MIG) wire is used for really light/thin material and comes in mild steel/stainless steel/aluminium. mild steel is primarily on thin sheet commonly like body work.
.035"(0.9mm) GMAW wire is usedon thicker material say 1/8" and up. How many amps is your Century? This is a comon but larger wire, if this is a baby mig i.e. 90 amps you may have a hard time welding with .035
Air Squid

[Paul]

Originally posted by Dave@AirLiquide
How many amps is your Century?

It goes up to 200 amps.

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Paul,
With 200 Amps you've got lots to weld with an .035" GMAW Mig wire. So use the .023" for thin guage material and use the .035" on thicker material like 1/8" and up. :welder Have Fun!, but remember to weld safely!
Air Squid

[swamp monster]

Dave sorry , very similar question. My sad little welder only goes up to 100 Amps. But it is set-up for gas like AllMIG. I think it only accepts .023 wire but if it turns out I can run say .030 will 100 amps be enough for this thicker wire. I want to weld some shock mounts to an axle assembly and need to know if I'm stretching it safety wise, for adequate penetration. thank you.:)

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi swamp monster,
No problem it is a good question, I have some ways to increase penetration with small welders when you really need it.
.023" size GMAW wires with a mixed gas are very good for light (thin guage) materials and gives less penetration so you don't blow holes and put spatter all over your nice body work. If you want more penetration use a back hand or drag technique vs. a fore hand or push technique. Now, we tell guys spend a little extra and get a good mixed gas like ALMIG for this because it will be better than C02, because C02 will burn big ol' holes in sheet metal, so if you want to get more penetration and you don't mind some spatter on your shock mounts, go in the reverse and get some C02 for this job in order to get a little extra penetration. Last resort would be to change the polarity of your sad little mig to electrode negative and get some self shield FCAW Flux cored wire,(Air Liquide, LA-T11/14) use a drag technique and you will get more penetration also.
Having said all this, with the proper joint prep, like a bevel etc. and with the .023 with ALMIG and a back hand technique, you should still be alright. Dave's "Rule of Thumb", Welding is 85% prep and 15% Arc. The Flux cored wire I mentioned above is at least .030" & I suspect that your machine would accept .030" mig wire.
Air Squid:)

P.S. If you feed that sad little mig the right stuff, it could be a happy little mig:laugh

[swamp monster]

Ok what would be a good test I can do at home to check the weld is sound besides appearance alone? Don't really want to try out the shock mounts by driving it till I'm positive their stuck on good. I'm going to weld it with (75% Argon- 25%Co2 -1% O2 ?), with .023 wire because that is what I'm familiar with, good prep of course. Also I need a gauge-regulator + small tank (want my own) what cost am I looking at? Where is the Air Liquide supplier in Poco? Could you put me in touch with somone there? Thanks for your time!

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi swamp monster,
A good little test at home would be to go to the local metal super market or steel supplier and get a small amount of material that is the same thickness as what you plan to weld. Get it all set up for the weld joint that you intend to do including a bevel if that is what you think you will need and try out your machine with the gas and wire combo that you have. Then, after welding it drop it on the floor and see if it breaks, if it does it ain't good enough! If it dosn't, beat the XXXX out of it with a hammer, if it takes a satisfying amount of effort to break the weld...you win! ARRRR I love destructive testing:redneck
With a .023 and 100 amps you just might be able to get into a spray with the right gas, in which case you should use a forehand technique, you'll probably have to nut your sad little mig machine on the voltage and then turn the wire feed speed all the way up, slowly adjust the wire feed speed down untill you get a nice spray type transfer which will be a arc/puddle that you can control and you will hear a nice humming sound with maybe a little bit of crackle. Keep in mind you may not be able to achieve this, in which case you will want to stick to a good solid short circuit transfer with a nice even bacon frying sound, and a backhand technique for more penetration. Either way test it out and then destroy it. Once satisfied with your tests use the same setup and give it a shot and see how you make out.
I hope it works for you!
Air Squid

oops, where is poco? Then I could tell you where an Air Liquide is

[swamp monster]

Port Coquitlam, I'll look you guys up in the phone book jus lazy. Again thanks very much you've been extremely helpful.:D

[beastmaster]

Hello Dave, Air Squid, and Rob St Jean.
Thanks for putting me onto this BC 4x4 site.
Dave I was at a seminar you put on sharing the new Air Liquide Welders in Edmonton. I am seriously interested in the inverter that has AC/DC output. Will it allow me to tig weld aluminum?
Where is the best place to try one out? I live in Sherwood Park.

[beastmaster]

Originally posted by Dave@AirLiquide
Rob! Are you there? Air BC!!!!!
Air Squid:p

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Beastmaster,
Good question...good opportunity to clarify, the new inverter is a DC CC/CV, it does not have have AC output and therefore cannot do GTAW of Aluminium. However it does have CV and you could do GMAW Aluminium with a spool gun with it. It will do DC GTAW for mild steel & Stainless Steel (rocker panels:) )
I should recieve test unit in late January. But let's don't let the cat out of the bag too early, I don't want to get completely overun by 4X4'ers with all the new exciting stuff!
Regards,
Air Squid

[beastmaster]

Hello Airsquid.
Dave, the unit I really am interested in was a small inverter type unit, and I swear it had AC output and squarwave or something like it for tigging. Do you have a 150? I need 100% weld, so I prefer to Tig instead of mig with a spool gun.
Thanks,
BM:

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Beastmaster,
Sorry today was a travel day otherwise I would have gotten back to you sooner. OK Now I know what you are after. What we have in the Air Liquide Welding line is the T150iL AC/DC. This is a very special product (one of my favorites) because this is one of the very few AC/DC Inverters available. This unit is a Constant Current(CC) for SMAW(Stick) & GTAW(TIG) but offers AC & DC output so you could weld DC TIG on Steel & Stainless Steel AND what it is realy designed for, is using the AC output so you can TIG on Aluminium. Further, we added a lot of standard features that would only be available on more expensive units or as a feature option like:
High Frequency Arc Starting Built in Standard
Square Wave AC output Standard for best AC TIG preformance
AC Balance Control so you can dial in more cleaning or more penetration
Pulse control ! AWESOME! & Standard
Post Weld Gas Flow Control
Trigger hold
Spot Timer
Needless to say this unit with 150 Amp output @ 60% duty cycle is loaded for the serious tig welder, but priced like all our light industrial units. It was just on sale on our Fall 2002 Promo Flyer, but will probably come back again due to requests.
Sneak preview only for 4x4er's, a new GTAW torch coming for this machine with the remote contactor (on/off) and amperage control built in to the handle of the torch, all quick connections to this unit with no adapters etc. and uses standard Tig Torch parts.
Have a look on the main page here at our machines, there is a secton of other Air Liquide machines and I think you could see this machine here.
Regards,
Air Squid

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Beastmaster,
Sorry man...lied to you. You cannot see the T150iL AC/DC in the other machine section on this website, but take a look around Lars had posted the Special Deals from Air Liquide with our last Fall promo flyer and I think it is on there.
Air Squid:)

[kevin casey]

Dave we have a 130 Air Liquide mig at work running almig gas. I would love to bet it to death with a big hammer. It's less than a year old and we sent it away to get fixed (solenoid stuck on) and it's starting to act up again. Are these a problem machines? Iown a 130 Miller xp that will weld circles around the Air Liquide machine. Thats my 2 cents THANX:welder

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Kevin,
Don't beat it to death it has a three year parts and labour warranty. The M130 is one of our highest selling machines in Canada. Year to date the warranty repair rate on this machine is 3%. Sounds like the original problem was not completely solved. The most common problem I see with this machine is a sticky relay on the main PC Board, and is an easy fix by replacing the board.:)
Air Squid

[swamp monster]

Air squid , which is the higher quality regulator for mig setup: a flow meter or the dual-dial gauge style? Also need to get a bottle for 75-25% mix and just need a small one I beleive the industry term is a 40?(bottle size) typically what's the going rate for this size bottle? Thanks.

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi swamp monster,
The better quality is a flowmeter regulator for sure. It allows more accurate setting of flow rates. But for simple GMAW applications you are probably fine just to get a flow guage regulator. In these there are real cheapies, I call creepers cause the seat always leak and so the delivery guage keeps creeping up. But there are good flowguage regulators that you can get that are just fine, like the Air Liquide ones made here in Canada
:canadian

Re the mixed gas price, they vary so much from region to region it is hard for me to say, but a 40 cuft cylinder of mixed gas, you will probably pay $50/60. A 40 cuft cylinder is often sold and I would suspect that you would pay around $100 for the cylinder.

I suggest you look at a ALMIG gas as it is way better than 75/25 and comes in a size 16 (80cuft) and you lease the cylinder. I woould guess about the same $ for the gas, and aroung $60 for an annual lease.
Regards,
Air Squid

[1/2toy1/2chevy]

dave how does the ultra mig200 compare with a miller or lincon those are the machines i use most but have heard good things about the ultra and just wanted to know if you can give me a little more info thanks....:welder

[Slowzuki]

Dave, could you post up the date the spring AL promo begins?
Thanks.
Ken

[Wil]

Originally posted by Slowzuki
Dave, could you post up the date the spring AL promo begins?
Thanks.
Ken


I believe the spring promo starts on April 1, 2003 until May 31, 2003.

[Brenty]

i'm tring to learn how to weld, i've got a hobart mig welder, itsgot 1-4 settings for voltage, and 10-20-30-etcfor wirefeed. since this is my first evertime doing it, how would i go about setting it up, and welding of course. this is a little welder that plugs into a regular 110V outlet. any info wouldbe great. thanks

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Whoa,
Sorry guys did'nt see your posts here.
1.) Air Liquide Spring Promo starts April 01 to May 31, looks really good, lots of value. NEW Push Pull Gun for use with Aluminium or regular mig for extended reach, fits Air Liquide M200 & M250 through the same direct Euro connection as the regular gun. Promo Flyer artwork sent to BC4X4 this past week. Wil & Lars may be able to post on this sight to give you guys the first look in Canada.
2.)Brenty, best way to set a mig is to set the voltage for the thickness of the metal you want to weld, then fine tune with the wire feed speed. Look on the inside cover of the machine, you should find a table with various settings suggestion for various thickness' of metal with gas without gas etc. Set the voltage as per the table, then set the wire feed speed real high(more than you need), then you move the wire feed speed in only one direction, down, untill you find a nice setting. A nice setting has a bacon frying sound or consistant buzz. If you hear popping and snaping, your settings are not right. Look at the www.millerwelds.com or Hobart website, they may have a basic explanation there, or visit an air liquide location and see what they have for training available. Many of our locations carry Miller training CD disc that are quite good. ASttend the next Air Liquide / BC4X4 seminar whenever I can get one arranged, or find a buddy on this site to come over for a :beer and show you some hints. Lot's of great guys here that are knowledgable.
I hope this helps, write back with more questions. Have fun, but weld SAFELY
Air Squid
:)

[swamp monster]

Dave, I just bought a 20 cubic ft tank of Almig gas(120.00 bucks). Also I have a brand new Flowmeter gauge (Inter-Pacific Trading Corp) brand. The tank at full, read 1540 PSI on the gauge. Initially I set the flow around 40 then lowered it to around 15. After a total of about 10 minutes worth of welding, the tank was reading around 1490-1500 PSI. Does this seem right ? I'm thinking either I got a leak or I shoulda bought a bigger tank. I don't recall gas being used up this quick on other machines I've used , but then I wasn't paying for it :rolleyes: Also is 1 dollar a cubic foot the standard going price for ALMIG gas? Thank You

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi swamp monster,
The flow for normal GMAW should be around 20 scfh standard cubic feet per hour so if you welded for ten minutes total arc time (trigger pulled & gas flowing) not fitting pieces together snipping off wire end etc, you should have used 3.33scf. ALMIG size 16 cylinder contains 101.34scf so you should get at 20scfh 5.06hrs(304mins) of arc time, gas flow at that rate. Check on your flowmeter what scale you are looking at, is it scfh or l/min?
An easy way to check for a leak is to turn on the cylinder valve, adjust the flowrate and then shut off the cylinder valve and observe the flowmeter cylinder contents(pressure) guage and watch to see if the pressure in the regulator holds. If you see the pressure needle going down slowly there is a leak, and then you can go checking for it by tightening all the conections or using a soap and water solution on the connections. ALWAYS turn the cylinder valve off when not in use. Guys come back to the job in the morning and find empty cylinders!
As far as price, I'm Marketing not Sales but from my Sales days, you paid $1.18/scf ($120/101.34), as far as memory serves me this seems quite reasonable, I recall Pure Argon at $1.00/scf and you bought a premium mix of Arg/C02 and Oxygen which has higher labour cost to fill & mix, so I think it is pretty good by the sounds of it.
I am not in the office today (Good Friday) but will check the fill proceadure for this cylinder/gas 1540psi full does not sound right to me, so I am wondering if your guage is reading right? Where did you buy the ALMIG? Also you can check your machine gas solenoid by ensuring after you let go of the trigger all the flow stops. I'll get back to you.
Thanks,
Dave Comer (Air Squid)
Air Liquide Canada Inc.

[Chris Epp]

Hey Dave,

I bought an M170 after the first training deal you did with BC4x4, and have experienced a bit of a problem with the drive roller motor. The driver rollers themselves seem to have no problem with grip, however the drive roller motor seems to be very weak.

On one occasion it would not feed the wire at all. I had to manually pull on the wire to get it going.

Have you come across any problems like this in the past for the M170? Has there been an upgraded/larger drive motor made available for the M170?

Thanks for your help!
Chris

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Chris,
Sorry did not get back to you sooner as was traveling this week. I am not sure what wire typr and diameter you are feeding, however don't have way to much tension on the drive rolls as this puts more load on motor, just enough so the wire feeds.
A weak motor has not been a typical problem on the M170. So try the above, maybe a little clean up / maintenance if it needs it. If you still have problems then you could take it to Air Liquide and they will have warranty service check it for you.
Thanks,
Air Squid

[diesel boy]

I picked up a belt driven generator 28 volts 60 amps. what are the chances of setting this thing up to weld trying for onboard welding just something for emergencies

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi diesel boy,

Nice idea, I have a guy in Alberta who replaced a $25,000 diesel driven welder with an inverter using a Ford Cab and chassis with a factory PTO to run a three phase generator. He went from 2400lbs to 200lbs and got more duty cycle!

In your case see if you can figure out if the generator will give you more amperage if you use less voltage?

Air Squid's General Rule of Thumb:)

1/8" electrode, 1 divided by 8 = .125 you need 125 amps
3/32" electrode, 3 divided by 32 = 0.9375 you need 94 amps

So your generator is a bit low in amperage output for SMAW Stick welding. There are some 1/16" specialty electrode around but very expensive and very small
1 divided by 16 = .0625 you need 63 amps

Hope this helps.

Air Squid

[Dean Neumann]

Dave, I bought an AirLiquide M170 during your bc4x4 promo and enjoy using it. Now I'd like to do some aluminum welding so I am looking for a spool gun for it. Your catalog only lists spool guns for Millers, not for the M170. Are they universal? Will any spool gun work with any welder? Can you explain the things to look for in a spool gun, i.e why does your online catalog list two different spool guns for Millers?
thanks.
--Dean

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hi Dean,
I am not sure what catalog you are looking at. We recently published our new welding product catalog for 2003. On page 82 there are the spec.'s on our two spoolguns. Miller spoolguns will not fit on our machines and our spoolguns will not fit on a Miller.
In your case what you will be looking for is an Air Liquide Welding (ALW) ALW-SG185 Spool Gun part # ALW-SG090055704. This gun is designed to operate off the Air Liquide M170. It has a 20 ft long cable, and is rated at 150Amps @60% duty cycle. We like Miller make more than one spool gun. We also have the SG-300 for our M200 & M250 machines which is rated at 300Amps @60% duty cycle, so this is the reason there are different spool guns.
Contact your local Air Liquide outlet to obtain pricing on the SG185 and get them to give you some tips etc for setup and welding Aluminum.
Thanks for asking and have fun with the aluminum, if you have any further questions ...please ask.
Air Squid
:welder

[driver351]

i'm trying to do a vertical down weld on some 3/16ths metal(metal is at a 90degree angle).i'm using a 220 volt miller thunderbolt arc welder and 6013 rods, i cannot do this bloddy weld to save my life. played around with the setting a bit, between 100 and 110 but it looks like crap!!!!! should i change my rod or go to a differant setting?

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Driver 351,

E6013 should be the correct electrode for this job. By your amperage it sounds like you are using 1/8" diameter electrode. You may want to try a 3/32" diameter E6013 like LA 6013 (part # BLU-3097 1306) or we also make a E6013P which is an iron powder version of E6013 for improved starting & travel speed carachteristics. Make sure that you are in DC on your machine.
The most ideal electrode that you could use for this type of work is E7048 (70,000 tensile, 4=vertical down, 8=low hydrogen flux). You could try to find some but it is very rare. If you contact your local Air Liquide and ask them to do a search, they mind find some sitting in St.Johns, NFLD.
Thanks,
Air Squid

[gladiator]

Planning to make a locked diff via the arc method. Question is, what type of rod would be best or what? Have access to big stick and mig machines so no limit on the tools.

[Cruiser Guy]

I'm going to be removing a rusty roof and replacing it with a solid roof. I have the option of using a spot weld remover (slow and expen$ive) or simply drilling the spots out (MUCH faster and cheaper).:help

I have read that I can use a thick piece of dis-similar metal to back up the holes (left when the spots are drilled out) and I'll be able to weld the holes closed and still remove this dis-similar metal. Is this true and if so what type of metal should I use? The roof is simply steel, nothing special that I know of. I'm using a MIG welder with resin core wire, no gas.
Am I using the right setup? I don't want a roof that sways around the corners when I'm done!

I'm not exactly a welding expert, having done my first welding about a month ago, but I can see progress!:welder

[ondarock]

Originally posted by Dave@AirLiquide

Re the mixed gas price, they vary so much from region to region it is hard for me to say, but a 40 cuft cylinder of mixed gas, you will probably pay $50/60. A 40 cuft cylinder is often sold and I would suspect that you would pay around $100 for the cylinder.

I suggest you look at a ALMIG gas as it is way better than 75/25 and comes in a size 16 (80cuft) and you lease the cylinder. I woould guess about the same $ for the gas, and aroung $60 for an annual lease.
Regards,
Air Squid

Hi Dave.
I just got a brand new Air Liquide Oxy/Acetylene torch handle, cutting head, and several tips from my Father in Law.,, Merry x-mas to me. :D
(Who says in-laws are all bad)...matter of fact, I haven't even recieved it yet, it's in transit.....anyhow, I'm in the market for O2 and Acetylene bottles for personal use. Does the same pricing above hold true for O2/Acet?
Purchase a 40 cu/ft for around $100, or lease a 16 for $60/year?

Can you post a little edumacation on bottle sizes for us? what sizes are sold as cuft, rather than 8, 16, etc.

I was looking at the "DUO" on sale in one of the flyers....$300 for a year lease for two bottles, gas, and a cart.....is the DUO Jr a lease deal too?
I've also been looking at the Altops, as I don't have regs yet...is there a big price jump for those?
I haven't had a chance to do the price shopping... seems I'm always working when the gas/welding shops are open.

Thanks.

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by ondarock


Hi Dave.
I just got a brand new Air Liquide Oxy/Acetylene torch handle, cutting head, and several tips from my Father in Law.,, Merry x-mas to me. :D
(Who says in-laws are all bad)...matter of fact, I haven't even recieved it yet, it's in transit.....anyhow, I'm in the market for O2 and Acetylene bottles for personal use. Does the same pricing above hold true for O2/Acet?
Purchase a 40 cu/ft for around $100, or lease a 16 for $60/year?

Can you post a little edumacation on bottle sizes for us? what sizes are sold as cuft, rather than 8, 16, etc.

I was looking at the "DUO" on sale in one of the flyers....$300 for a year lease for two bottles, gas, and a cart.....is the DUO Jr a lease deal too?
I've also been looking at the Altops, as I don't have regs yet...is there a big price jump for those?
I haven't had a chance to do the price shopping... seems I'm always working when the gas/welding shops are open.

Thanks.

Not Dave, but here are my thoughts:

The size is the nominal water capacity in liters. I.E. a size 27 has a nominal water capacity of 27L, contains 141 cu. ft. of O2 @ 2015PSI. A 27+ also holds 27L of water, but contains 155 cu. ft. of O2 @ 2265PSI.

Size Cubic Feet of O2
49+ 337
44+ 281
44 256
44L+ 251
44L 228
44LL+ 198
44LL 180
27+ 155
27 141
22+ 125
16 84
11 68
7 43
3 19

Most of us refer to them by standard sizes – 20, 40, 55, 80, 110, 125, 150, 220, 250, 300, 400 etc. with different manufacturers having slightly different sizes.

I personally no longer deal with Air Liquide but in my experience they will not outright sell you a cylinder larger than 40 cu. ft. they will only lease. I own 18-20 Cylinders and I would NEVER lease. $60/year for an 80 cu. Ft. cylinder that you buy new for ~$100 is not a wise choice. If you look at this over a period of 5 years, if you buy instead of lease you will have saved enough money to buy a good set of regs.

I made a call and got these “guy off of the street” prices for Oxy/Acet packages. For outright purchase of brand new and full cylinders, sizes in cu. ft.
Oxy 50/Acet 40 - $300
Oxy 80/Acet 40 - $335
Oxy 122/Acet 75 - $475
Oxy 244/Acet 150 - $625
Oxy 337/Acet 250 - $690

[ondarock]

Sweet.
Thanks for the info....so a 40 is probably around 4ft tall or so right? (taller and narrower than 2 stacked 5 gallon buckets) and a 8 is a tiny bugger...say like the ones that come with those Lincoln outfits at Cdn Tire.

Hmmm...$300 to buy 2 full tanks ain't too bad, specially when it's nearly that for a one year lease plus gas.
Will have to look at what I can lift, and fit in a hatchback (no running 4x4 at the moment)
a 40 and a 27 would be pretty good I suppose.
Close to 100 lbs per cylinder in that size, I'd guess?

[jasonmt]

Acet 40 ~ 6”x24”
Acet 75 ~ 7”x30”
Acet 150 ~ 8”x40”

Oxy 50 ~ 7” x 30”
Oxy 80 ~ 7” x 42”
Oxy 122 ~ 7” x 55”

The Acetylene cylinders are going to be the heavy ones, but the 75 cu. ft. should be less than 100 pounds. The Oxy 122 only weighs ~ 60 pounds when full.

Another thing to keep in mind, at least with the suppliers that I deal with is that the bigger the cylinder the cheaper the cost of gas per cubic foot is. I.E per cubic foot it is much cheaper to fill the 450+ cu. ft. cylinders that I use than the 80 cu. ft. lots of people have at home. Depending on how much you are planning on using them this could become a factor vs. initial cost and how much space they take up.

As far as transport, if you are within reasonable distance of a dealer most would be more than happy to deliver the cylinders for you.

[BigCoho]

Hi Dave,

I'm in the market for a welder and your M200 mig unit caught my attention. Just wondering if BC4x4 members get a discount on Air Liquide products?

Thanks, Dan.

[Dave@AirLiquide]

Hey EvilBronc,

YES...the best way is to contact Rob St-Jean at Air Liquide Vancouver (604) 676-3900, tell him you are a member of BC4X4 (he'll check your ID, lol) and that you were chatting with me and he will arrange a discount for you. If the M200 caught your eye, (which has been a great seller for us!) It now has a new optional feature that very few other machines in the market offer.

The new feature is called Auto-Regulation. What it is is an option we have put in the machine to change the way it regulates wire feed speed. Normal or "linear" regulation is just what you expect, adjust the volatge for thick or thin material / short circuit or spray type transfer, and then fine tune the wire feed speed, and then re-adjust the wire feed speed each time you change the voltage.

With Auto-Regulation installed, you still set the voltage as above and set the wire feed speed...BUT thereafter as you increase or decrease the voltage, say to jump from a low voltage on thin material to a high voltage on thick material, the wire feed speed will automatically increase for the higher voltage without having to re-set the wire feed speed. You can still go back to the machine and fine tune the wire feed speed to personal preference, since all welders are a bit different. haha ok don't take that the wrong way!! It is sort of like the difference between standard and automatic transmission!

So to sum up, the M200 has all the great standard features some other machines do not offer + you can get Auto-Regulation as an additional option that most other machines don't offer and you can get a BC4X4 discount. To see more info on this watch for Lars posting info about Auto-Regulation on this site and our upcoming 2004 Spring Flyer

Happy Welding!

Dave Comer
Product Manager - Welding Equipment
Air Liquide Canada Inc.
( Air Squid)

[BigCoho]

thanks Dave:D

[2bit]

With Auto-Regulation is that the same as miller's wire feed speed tracking?

[Knifeboy]

Question from a welding newbie.
I'm getting pit holes in my welds (characteristic of bad sheilding) but my gas is already set at 15CFH. The funny thing is I would get a couple good welds down, then for some reason the next one would have holes. I keep the nozzle right up to the work at a 45degree angle. I'm no master at technique but I am consistant. I've even gone over the parts with a grinder taking the metal down to a fresh shiny finish before starting.
So what could be the cause of the pitting? Am I missing something in my prep work?
Oh and the machine I'm using is a Millermatic 175 with 75/25 mixed gas.


Jason

[ondarock]

Sounds like your getting a breeze of air blowing away your shielding gas...
Your flow sounds kind of low also.
try bumping it up to 20, especially if you have an open door, or a fan or something running.
You may also have a leak somewhere in your gas hose.

[Knifeboy]

Thanks for the advice! I'm doing all the welding in my garage so I leave the side door open just a crack. Guess that must be the culprit. Thanks again. :)

Jason

[ondarock]

Originally posted by Knifeboy
Thanks for the advice! I'm doing all the welding in my garage so I leave the side door open just a crack. Guess that must be the culprit. Thanks again. :)
Jason

you need ventilation, but if you can open the door between running beads, while you're cutting and doint fit-up, then close it for the minute you're welding, or crank your gas up to 20+ CFH, you might have better luck.

[Knifeboy]

I know what you mean about the ventilation. This afternoon I had to crawl into my tiny '76 Honda civic to weld in my roll cage and let me tell ya, that little compartment filled up with smoke pretty darn fast! haha :eek:

Another Newbie question:
I heard some guys talk about wearing a respirator while you weld. What I'd like to know is what type of respirator actually fits under the helmet? I have the typical 3M ones for fiberglass and paint and that thing is way too big to fit between my face and the face shield. Are there specific respirators designed just for welding?



Jason

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by Knifeboy
I know what you mean about the ventilation. This afternoon I had to crawl into my tiny '76 Honda civic to weld in my roll cage and let me tell ya, that little compartment filled up with smoke pretty darn fast! haha :eek:

Another Newbie question:
I heard some guys talk about wearing a respirator while you weld. What I'd like to know is what type of respirator actually fits under the helmet? I have the typical 3M ones for fiberglass and paint and that thing is way too big to fit between my face and the face shield. Are there specific respirators designed just for welding?



Jason

Two options for respirators - North makes a backpack adapter for their respirators that will fit under a standard helmet:
http://www.northsafety.com/images/products/head/L_BP1002.jpg

Or you can buy a helmet that is designed to run a respirator underneath of it. You neck will thank you if you go the North backpack route.

[windchild81]

Okay, I am editing my message...this time with more research!!

I am considering buying a P.A. Deca welder, the 150 E model. It does 105 amps (not 85) at 20% duty, and is 115volt plug in. This attracts me b/c I don't want to rewire my garage...

The deca 150E is 105 A @ 20% and is 115v ----$500
The lincoln SP135 is 90 A @ 20% and is 115v ---$900
The lincoln SP175 is 130A @ 30% and is 230v ---$1200

YET both of the lincolns weld the EXACT SAME THICKNESS OF STEEL WHEN USING GAS--3/16". With flux core, the 175 model can go 1/4". May as well use my arc welder on that stuff...damn slag!!

Princess Auto returns things even if you were to destroy it with a shotgun three seconds after buying it, or even twelve years after buying it- store policy.
Also, they have TONNES of cheap Deca replacement parts, versus the twice as expensive lincoln stuff. Deca is an italian manufacturer with 30 years experience...good or bad I don't know...!

The lincoln welders have some interesting safety features though-1-the trigger stays electronically cold until you hit the trigger
2-the wire is always the proper length sticking out to prevent sticking in the weld puddle--anti burnback or something...
3-Continuos versus tapped power selection- allows for fine tuning of arc.

But I just can't justify spending $400 or $700 more for something that has a few extra bells and whistles and a slightly higher duty cycle, especially since the higher power models don't allow me to weld any thicker materials than my alternator arc welding unit.

Any input is appreciated...

[ghetto]

I will be doing some welding around the gas tank. Some people have said to fill the tank, others have said empty and fill with water and someone else said they run their exhaust back into the tank so that it is full of CO2.

How should i shield the tank?

The tank is rear mounted, suzuki SJ 410

thanks

also what are the best electrodes and voltages for welding mild steel 1/4" to 3/16" and 1/2" to 3/16"? Good electrodes for body panels?

I have an old 35-230 sears brand ARC welder

thanks again

[gwmotorsports]

Hey guys, I got a question for Dave or Rob. I bought one of your air liquide t 90i stick / tig welders a few months ago, mainly to use for TIG welding. Well it works ok in TIG mode, but while trying to stick weld I have a hard to getting the arc to start and keep going with 7018. I also cannot run a 6010 rod at all. The arc will start and then just go out right away. Im a profesional welder so I know that its not my techinque its the machine. My guess is that it has to low of an open circuit voltage which makes it difficult to start the arc and impossible to run 6010. Is this correct? I've only been running the machine on a 110V 15a circuit, would it help at all if the machine was used on a 20a circuit?

Thanks,
will